From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRCgjLXnBBoE35f4Wg@googlegroups.com Wed Nov 24 09:07:00 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PLInz-0001t9-1o; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:07:00 -0800 Received: by ywh1 with SMTP id 1sf1884942ywh.16 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:06:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=Q4mEuCdK+bBvkW4OytZKAkIQSRgzTkS6GrCLuTPQOzg=; b=QALoo8ToTMa64Ta+xuR5XuO3dRAQcxjEGWbq1TdST4x4zqA2VzT85jPiOe5rwtZtVC klXjpEcnWSXNDmI7rmK/kRdawm6R2OqS9K3sXu5Yp5Cyp0r7E6n+hANI4poV5ZKHOKuB //q4OlTdUZAVejMb51/fbT7fREUqOX9i9QG9c= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=1Q0Q4r0WV6v37HkK3g4Ejdctxq7IMNhdui03Ai7hoC6VYri3RE62O3zROgQBEhn6FD 82kPYQ4SXWsyESVAimfGDT+zst2sfym5sHL+fqsu4LhSVbgae9tzHtOMIDlSW+QCSqNG nekigwDeWNGadR6xbQPQZPOKe0b5S9JCcZHSg= Received: by 10.151.63.1 with SMTP id q1mr96702ybk.60.1290618400339; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:06:40 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.1.11 with SMTP id 11ls1083570yba.0.p; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:06:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.151.108.14 with SMTP id k14mr193832ybm.47.1290618399642; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:06:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.151.108.14 with SMTP id k14mr193829ybm.47.1290618399608; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:06:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.117]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id i38si321121yhj.1.2010.11.24.09.06.38; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:06:38 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.117 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.117; Received: (qmail 23647 invoked by uid 60001); 24 Nov 2010 17:06:38 -0000 Message-ID: <54925.23614.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: C95lGnsVM1mjXtfyrXimk_G353nYDsqE1fz7.zKONyGHUoG ThAVWSgrtON2hxu9.vu6eSJcD5.zrqWkUeltFPjA14pyX8n24raAg._r.7sT d4AYg43F_Gda4TrEAHCqtZKQl78XH8pHqn.RX.2rBsOdOA6gTZSGlO2uz5L3 cke8Vuz.xx6nH0ExqeUio0HCiyxOyDBo8mc4RpiTbBO2L9Blj8363i4gI0yb J4ZxDC8udouTbpguzO_DNPu6.LSMIjBkBw.WbbN2nmPiRsS.vMiwIf_6dm8j TBYaWpA4pEawGrb2nYfz7HjzXa5dyxUY0eLmUWrSGO4rj_.sino.p2TGQQCD QAG9KXRc5jR5_OCCtV24EWeczUS_A9eM1HOROj3G0Lx77IYAmDKL909m57g- - Received: from [99.92.110.13] by web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:06:37 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 References: <99731.9603.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:06:37 -0800 (PST) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] Describing a predicate as a predicate To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: <99731.9603.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.117 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Whoa! 'klama' is not a bridi but a selbri. So making the appropriate substitution ought to get it right, whether it is what is wanted is unclear. ----- Original Message ---- From: John E Clifford To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 11:03:53 AM Subject: Re: [lojban] Describing a predicate as a predicate I suppose 'lo mu terbri' "five terms-serving-as-arguments" ----- Original Message ---- From: purpleposeidon To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 10:40:47 AM Subject: Re: [lojban] Describing a predicate as a predicate {zo klama bridi fi mu terbri}, {zo klama bridi fi mu lo ro terbri}? On 11/24/10, Ian Johnson wrote: > {lo si'o broda} expands to {lo si'o zo'e broda zo'e ...}. I don't want the > idea involved in a proposition involving broda, a proposition involving > broda, etc. I want to be talking about broda as a predicate. > > I don't actually know how to take {mu da} and put it into a sequence or set > (short of using a vast excess of {ce'o} or {ce}), so unfortunately this has > to be in English: > > The predicate "klama" takes five arguments. > > Anyway, {la'e zo} works. I had that idea before coming to this actually but > I suspected for some reason that it might give me a concrete object. Nice to > know that it doesn't, and that this isn't all that hard to do. > > .i ki'e .i mu'o mi'e latros. > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Michael Turniansky > wrote: > >> I'm having real trouble understanding what you mean by "the predicate >> itself as an abstract concept". You can certainly find the idea of broda >> intersting - "lo si'o broda cu cinri", but I expect that's not what you >> mean? Is there any way you can put your abstract example into a more >> concrete one? >> --gejyspa >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Ian Johnson >> wrote: >> >>> Is there a way to take a selbri and make a sumti that is not "an x1 of >>> broda" but simply "broda"; like "broda is interesting", having not to do >>> with an event, proposition, etc. of broda, but just the predicate itself, >>> as >>> an abstract concept? About the only idea I have is to use {lo selbri be >>> fa >>> zo broda} which seems like a pretty terrible way of doing it. >>> >>> mu'o mi'e latros. >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.