From lojban+bncCML0xpmUARCHkbXnBBoE7k2X7g@googlegroups.com Wed Nov 24 09:17:12 2010 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PLIxt-0000KC-9Y; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:17:12 -0800 Received: by pvh1 with SMTP id 1sf1105758pvh.16 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:16:59 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=GNz6dHP7YPFeXW6kWTnWiTcoHfTBLf6Rv47rQQRkAxA=; b=OP4LXJ6FShmp3JE25OmY2aA27Azw3Dk5AKckzBS+4hvCAaoAvZnhbUafIfUP/1ioFz aaWG02R1+vGHilhx80Y/gpxIzfQLqt+/hjyGuR/6PpVzlZg4vsUWMs9UYKRZH3IUbT+c 8xf46I4Y7oxE6NAAbEme1rOo4SoIIxKZbdXCU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=WfDsLaO8RYO9X1SmEitsDu5rK09AQzykUQEGTx8eOIdmaf1vlERFh0LRb6xvy0oVF7 BQxHyYm8gqekMp3wNCMhGR1CmtiQ6T+gyl00+WCJgRs8EtUlgItjOASjS7nWzbyTDzFP xjoJGAdJR+z7RpkPrs+isAbvtgQgFIrjLfzEA= Received: by 10.142.238.11 with SMTP id l11mr508093wfh.15.1290619015709; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:16:55 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.78.15 with SMTP id a15ls1362670wfb.2.p; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:16:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.11.4 with SMTP id 4mr5727268wfk.10.1290619014272; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:16:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.11.4 with SMTP id 4mr5727267wfk.10.1290619014235; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:16:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pw0-f53.google.com (mail-pw0-f53.google.com [209.85.160.53]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id p40si10737934wfc.6.2010.11.24.09.16.53; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:16:53 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.160.53; Received: by pwi2 with SMTP id 2so20407pwi.12 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:16:53 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.245.15 with SMTP id s15mr8895734wfh.263.1290619012890; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:16:52 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.86.1 with HTTP; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 09:16:52 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <54925.23614.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <99731.9603.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <54925.23614.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 12:16:52 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Describing a predicate as a predicate From: Ian Johnson To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.160.53 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd172b4cdc4eb0495cfa784 --000e0cd172b4cdc4eb0495cfa784 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 At this discussion in general: a word is not a predicate. You need a {la'e} to extract a predicate from a word that can represent a predicate, pe'i. mu'o mi'e latros. On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 12:06 PM, John E Clifford wrote: > Whoa! 'klama' is not a bridi but a selbri. So making the appropriate > substitution ought to get it right, whether it is what is wanted is > unclear. > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: John E Clifford > To: lojban@googlegroups.com > Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 11:03:53 AM > Subject: Re: [lojban] Describing a predicate as a predicate > > I suppose 'lo mu terbri' "five terms-serving-as-arguments" > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: purpleposeidon > To: lojban@googlegroups.com > Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 10:40:47 AM > Subject: Re: [lojban] Describing a predicate as a predicate > > {zo klama bridi fi mu terbri}, {zo klama bridi fi mu lo ro terbri}? > > On 11/24/10, Ian Johnson wrote: > > {lo si'o broda} expands to {lo si'o zo'e broda zo'e ...}. I don't want > the > > idea involved in a proposition involving broda, a proposition involving > > broda, etc. I want to be talking about broda as a predicate. > > > > I don't actually know how to take {mu da} and put it into a sequence or > set > > (short of using a vast excess of {ce'o} or {ce}), so unfortunately this > has > > to be in English: > > > > The predicate "klama" takes five arguments. > > > > Anyway, {la'e zo} works. I had that idea before coming to this actually > but > > I suspected for some reason that it might give me a concrete object. Nice > to > > know that it doesn't, and that this isn't all that hard to do. > > > > .i ki'e .i mu'o mi'e latros. > > > > On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Michael Turniansky > > wrote: > > > >> I'm having real trouble understanding what you mean by "the predicate > >> itself as an abstract concept". You can certainly find the idea of > broda > >> intersting - "lo si'o broda cu cinri", but I expect that's not what you > >> mean? Is there any way you can put your abstract example into a more > >> concrete one? > >> --gejyspa > >> > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Ian Johnson > >> wrote: > >> > >>> Is there a way to take a selbri and make a sumti that is not "an x1 of > >>> broda" but simply "broda"; like "broda is interesting", having not to > do > >>> with an event, proposition, etc. of broda, but just the predicate > itself, > >>> as > >>> an abstract concept? About the only idea I have is to use {lo selbri be > >>> fa > >>> zo broda} which seems like a pretty terrible way of doing it. > >>> > >>> mu'o mi'e latros. > >>> > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "lojban" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > > > > >> . > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > >> > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --000e0cd172b4cdc4eb0495cfa784 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At this discussion in general: a word is not a predicate. You need a {la= 9;e} to extract a predicate from a word that can represent a predicate, pe&= #39;i.

mu'o mi'e latros.

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 12:06 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wr= ote:
Whoa! =A0'klama' is not a bridi but a selbri. =A0So making the appr= opriate
substitution ought to get it right, whether it is what is wanted is unclear= .



----- Original Message ----
From: John E Clifford <kali9putr= a@yahoo.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com<= br>
Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 11:03:= 53 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Describing a predicate as a predicate

I suppose 'lo mu terbri' =A0"five terms-serving-as-arguments&q= uot;



----- Original Message ----
From: purpleposeidon <purple= poseidon@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com<= br> Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 10:40:47 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Describing a predicate as a predicate

{zo klama bridi fi mu terbri}, {zo klama bridi fi mu lo ro terbri}?

On 11/24/10, Ian Johnson <blin= dbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
> {lo si'o broda} expands to {lo si'o zo'e broda zo'e ..= .}. I don't want the
> idea involved in a proposition involving broda, a proposition involvin= g
> broda, etc. I want to be talking about broda as a predicate.
>
> I don't actually know how to take {mu da} and put it into a sequen= ce or set
> (short of using a vast excess of {ce'o} or {ce}), so unfortunately= this has
> to be in English:
>
> The predicate "klama" takes five arguments.
>
> Anyway, {la'e zo} works. I had that idea before coming to this act= ually but
> I suspected for some reason that it might give me a concrete object. N= ice to
> know that it doesn't, and that this isn't all that hard to do.=
>
> .i ki'e .i mu'o mi'e latros.
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Michael Turniansky
> <mturniansky@gmail.com= >wrote:
>
>> =A0I'm having real trouble understanding what you mean by =A0&= quot;the predicate
>> itself as an abstract concept". =A0 You can certainly find th= e idea of broda
>> intersting - "lo si'o broda cu cinri", but I expect = that's not what you
>> mean? =A0Is there any way you can put your abstract example into a= more
>> concrete one?
>> =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0--gejyspa
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Ian Johnson
>> <blindbravado@gmail.c= om>wrote:
>>
>>> Is there a way to take a selbri and make a sumti that is not &= quot;an x1 of
>>> broda" but simply "broda"; like "broda is = interesting", having not to do
>>> with an event, proposition, etc. of broda, but just the predic= ate itself,
>>> as
>>> an abstract concept? About the only idea I have is to use {lo = selbri be
>>> fa
>>> zo broda} which seems like a pretty terrible way of doing it.<= br> >>>
>>> mu'o mi'e latros.
>>>
>> =A0--
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google= Groups
>> "lojban" group.
>> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
>> lojban+un= subscribe@googlegroups.com<lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com>
>> .
>> For more options, visit this group at
>> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Gro= ups
> "lojban" group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
> lojban+unsubs= cribe@googlegroups.com.
> For more options, visit this group at
> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>
>

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