Ah, I see, it's "a set= " in the same sense that a relation is a set of ordered pairs. That makes s= ense.

mu'o mi'e latros.

On Wed, No= v 24, 2010 at 1:44 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putr= a@yahoo.com> wrote:

That's the extension of a term, in this case a predicate: the set of all= things that satisfy the predicate, so, in the case of 'klama' a set of qui= ntuples of objects, places, places, routes between aforementioned places, a= nd modes of transportation, such that the first is going from the second to= the third along the fourth by means of the fifth. That is also a five-plac= e relation, if you want to say that the referent should be a relation.

From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com>
To: lojban@= googlegroups.com

Sent: Wed, November = 24, 2010 12:03:58 PM

Subject: Re: [lojban] Describing a predicat= e as a predicate

Wait, why would the referent of {klama} be a set? And what would it contain= ?
On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 12:46 PM, John E Cl= ifford <kali9p= utra@yahoo.com> wrote:

You need to remind me what 'la'e' does then, since I thought it got to the = referent of a word, which would not be a relation but a set. If the w= ord is not the predicate, what do we call the word -- without going into Lo= gjamese?

<= b>From: Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 11:16:52 AM=

Subject: Re: [lojban] Describing a predicate as a predicate

At this discussion in general: a word is not a predicate. You need a {la'e}= to extract a predicate from a word that can represent a predicate, pe'i.
mu'o mi'e latros.

On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 12:06 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
Whoa! 'klama' is not a bridi but a selbri. So making the approp= riate
substitution ought to get it right, whether it is what is wanted is unclear= .

----- Original Message ----
From: John E Clifford <kali9putr= a@yahoo.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com

Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 11:03:53 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Describing a predicate as a predicate

I suppose 'lo mu terbri' "five terms-serving-as-arguments"

----- Original Message ----
From: purpleposeidon <pu= rpleposeidon@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wed, November 24, 2010 10:40:47 AM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Describing a predicate as a predicate

{zo klama bridi fi mu terbri}, {zo klama bridi fi mu lo ro terbri}?

On 11/24/10, Ian Johnson <bl= indbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
> {lo si'o broda} expands to {lo si'o zo'e broda zo'e ...}. I don't want= the
> idea involved in a proposition involving broda, a proposition involvin= g
> broda, etc. I want to be talking about broda as a predicate.
>
> I don't actually know how to take {mu da} and put it into a sequence o= r set
> (short of using a vast excess of {ce'o} or {ce}), so unfortunately thi= s has
> to be in English:
>
> The predicate "klama" takes five arguments.
>
> Anyway, {la'e zo} works. I had that idea before coming to this actuall= y but
> I suspected for some reason that it might give me a concrete object. N= ice to
> know that it doesn't, and that this isn't all that hard to do.
>
> .i ki'e .i mu'o mi'e latros.
>
> On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 8:58 AM, Michael Turniansky
> <mturniansky@gmail.com<= /a>>wrote:
>
>> I'm having real trouble understanding what you mean by = ;"the predicate
>> itself as an abstract concept". You can certainly find the = idea of broda
>> intersting - "lo si'o broda cu cinri", but I expect that's not wha= t you
>> mean? Is there any way you can put your abstract example int= o a more
>> concrete one?
>> --gejyspa
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 23, 2010 at 5:42 PM, Ian Johnson
>> <blindbravado@gmail= .com>wrote:
>>
>>> Is there a way to take a selbri and make a sumti that is not "= an x1 of
>>> broda" but simply "broda"; like "broda is interesting", having= not to do
>>> with an event, proposition, etc. of broda, but just the predic= ate itself,
>>> as
>>> an abstract concept? About the only idea I have is to use {lo = selbri be
>>> fa
>>> zo broda} which seems like a pretty terrible way of doing it.<= br> >>>
>>> mu'o mi'e latros.
>>>
>> --
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>
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