From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRDcw7fnBBoEte8rcw@googlegroups.com Wed Nov 24 20:11:25 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PLTAz-0001wT-EO; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:11:24 -0800 Received: by ywh1 with SMTP id 1sf387532ywh.16 for ; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:11:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:date:from:subject:to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=0QCo8lAD86VTGAdDRErnWjp9sj46hiJnx1jbC+f98wk=; b=Zl8PdAiG5M/zNK4HEYRn1ygnMgVPjE2t+uLMKVeE5kF1XW7ADyqmb890YVVmbvchoV CFhT6vOS0sqyY8nfHPABjdwgqNcqDlIfJSaoPYNKYFlg1U0IRVnBB/me+H2ErxDkoJ9X j+PrnV341r3h8o84FchR4n5TrWdyYj23fNelw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:date:from :subject:to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=eFhC3LSsY9QlJfrfzFeFVItrufzronXVNCKgR4TBhgBgwR3TH+xkgS5Gku8nt/JfpT iCAB0PnXUGxjBPQb7WK+ZXVtTAChS6GDTdgnstyrQsCa7aUPp2fHAbGrqZsjK3eluGAZ 92pExDInyv3GAhryb0ngiDj8rH7pr0YLFyIJE= Received: by 10.150.26.10 with SMTP id 10mr166462ybz.78.1290658268458; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:11:08 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.90.17.22 with SMTP id 22ls411730agq.2.p; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:11:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.117.8 with SMTP id p8mr606311agc.15.1290658267625; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:11:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.117.8 with SMTP id p8mr606310agc.15.1290658267604; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:11:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.123]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id l24si44208yhd.4.2010.11.24.20.11.06; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:11:06 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.123 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.123; Received: (qmail 13004 invoked by uid 60001); 25 Nov 2010 04:11:06 -0000 Message-ID: <987110.11542.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: GCyMx1UVM1lL3TjbD3u6vxQq0q8zFfy1UHebmUJUsIRQxtn gBYdRp_NXwlyuFztqhVAwaBvMJHniD_lepVsv8QYBTw2vetYEe8rTCgL4xy1 3GEowYIOZ4r0k6uTofSeCESW6g2TEn_hGBvYvogfvu3s2N3McFgdb.WdRuyj pexdJ7_yXekJDfnWAnBJfpvg_RmQounOhaTCf42FsCJfKLNi0l.sqXPlrtMa VtGif1XJJraSgkxj2Mf9IbzyRVSTCY2WQsQa1hvkyXwgv8H9Vu17iPcxdmXb zOK517RhKZlb5qWqHaD2KQUhBvr9OT6Ht_LgyemDBeYKS7220PqV2Dbvdate 9fjO7h.pAW.UjnWIWLoiRYM.qXZ_DBkfKk1fpP97GlZ.DWyZkHLSu.hq9uw- - Received: from [72.161.254.125] by web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:11:05 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2010 20:11:05 -0800 (PST) From: "John E. Clifford" Subject: Re: [lojban] on emotions again To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.123 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Note that using an emotional is in no way a replacement for or alternative = version of describing something with a brivla. The apparent attachment to = various words in a sentence is mainly of rhetorical importance and very occ= asionally semantic, it does not impute the emotion to any one or any thing = other than the speaker (emotionals *express* emotions, not *describe* them)= .=20 Sent from my iPad On Nov 24, 2010, at 16:08, Remo Dentato wrote: On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 9:56 PM, .alyn.post. wrote: On Wed, Nov 24, 2010 at 12:48:22PM -0800, A. Piekarski wrote: Some years ago, I took a stab at this. It turned out to be more difficult than I expected. Lojban emotions don't map very well onto Plutchik's wheel= . See attached speadsheet. I was expecting to see brivla, actually. I think, for instance, that the inner wheel represents emotions that are not broadly acceptable to express in public (like lust), [...] totus, that spreadsheet is exactly what I was trying to get to! If anyone else could comment, we could transform into some nice graphical format. alyn, I think that using emotionals is important here. Consider that emotionals can be attached to other words, they refer to the speker only when used at the beginning of a sentence, so it may make sense to use an emotional instead of describe the same think with a brivla. I'll go looking at totus spreadsheet more carefully ... Thanks! Remo --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.