From lojban+bncCK7Yk5CUCxDgn7vnBBoExGtwwA@googlegroups.com Thu Nov 25 13:06:57 2010 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PLj1l-00063i-Eh; Thu, 25 Nov 2010 13:06:57 -0800 Received: by vws1 with SMTP id 1sf485239vws.16 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2010 13:06:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=TE4ZwOAIuZGZojNXCwcsEwBnlGiDkToqRhObaF2/Ab0=; b=4LoifKfoDUqu/Q2GpLG2JB+Q/R7hKTox6c8KxsoUahcAX+vBwOlpWK8SY7rbWH+QaC ntK6pSInmiYzQJR+aI9ZyepPfiXdR32zI2eSVuTlrz2HBkNkI/YBoKCMq8o8uqkyZANr OdJFBns07pXuD0ilnaEjSNoXDmfMeY0A/dQ5I= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=UmfBs2yP01MwPTSO8pmG0bgiFZZSrRPbXO0FkpBUfBV/n64UUDse9tjJ4nrHpMo7Rk 8el7Z+IS7a/WMoQcxH6lw5jXkVCPaCixucsZTVGyUZrj3DJXfbJanTzv3x5IGXgTYpvF NkUt/3lO/Fa6HNTVcGTw4QOG+OlTfFdId5s5k= Received: by 10.220.203.129 with SMTP id fi1mr42240vcb.29.1290719200208; Thu, 25 Nov 2010 13:06:40 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.160.2 with SMTP id l2ls223274vcx.4.p; Thu, 25 Nov 2010 13:06:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.169.72 with SMTP id x8mr83998vcy.2.1290719199153; Thu, 25 Nov 2010 13:06:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.169.72 with SMTP id x8mr83997vcy.2.1290719199129; Thu, 25 Nov 2010 13:06:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qy0-f174.google.com (mail-qy0-f174.google.com [209.85.216.174]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id f24si51236vcm.9.2010.11.25.13.06.38; Thu, 25 Nov 2010 13:06:38 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.174 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.174; Received: by mail-qy0-f174.google.com with SMTP id 11so4517483qyk.12 for ; Thu, 25 Nov 2010 13:06:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.240.193 with SMTP id lb1mr196493qcb.157.1290719197830; Thu, 25 Nov 2010 13:06:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.226.15 with HTTP; Thu, 25 Nov 2010 13:06:37 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <987110.11542.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <987110.11542.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 25 Nov 2010 22:06:37 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] on emotions again From: Remo Dentato To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rdentato@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.174 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rdentato@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 5:11 AM, John E. Clifford wr= ote: > Note that using an emotional is in no way a replacement for or alternativ= e version of describing something with a brivla. The apparent attachment t= o various words in a sentence is mainly of rhetorical importance and very o= ccasionally semantic, it does not impute the emotion to any one or any thin= g other than the speaker (emotionals *express* emotions, not *describe* the= m). > If not at the beginning of the sentence, from a syntactic point of view, the emotion is "attached" to the preceding sumti. An example that was rised in IRC is: 1. {.a'i mi tavla fo la lojban} 2. {mi tavla .a'i fo la lojban} 3. {mi tavla fo la lojban .a'i} From a semantic point of view, this means that the the feeling "refers to" that sumti so the first one states that the speaker is doing an effort in speaking lojban, the second one suggests that the effort is due to talking (rather than, for example, writing) and the third suggests that the effort is related to the fact that the language is Lojban (as opposed to be English or Chinese, for example). In all three cases, the speaker is the one doing the effort. Who's feeling the emotion is usually the speaker but the cmavo {dai} (empathy) can be used to indicaate that it's a "general feeling" and the experimental cmavo {da'oi} allows you to specifiy who's feeling the emo= tion. ... Or at least this is my understanding ... Remo --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.