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Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 12:37:09 -0800 (PST)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation
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But, of course, "surprised and in awe, aintcha" is merely a derived sentence 
fragment, not an expression of a feeling.  The magician is not surprised or 
awed, nor does he feel that of the watcher empathetically.  He may feel nothing 
at all or pride in duping the rubes or embarrassment for the same reason and so 
on.  I agree that 'da'oi' as described is what you are looking for but you are 
looking in the wrong place -- it ain't in UI and related things but in plain old 
bridi, describing the emotions of another.  'da'oi' is merely a conceptual 
mistake brought on by the ever-renewed habit of using UI instead of bridi.  
Notice, "surprised and in awe" can be denied, declared false; a UI cannot 
(though it may be genuine or faked).




________________________________
From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, November 27, 2010 2:25:56 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation


Yep, da'oi is exactly what I was looking for.  ki'e la .remo.
See, john that's actually what I AM looking for.  I expect that's somewhat how 
da'oi to be used.
I would read a magician saying ".ue.u'e da'oi [do]" as something like english 
"tada" or as a shortcut for the lojban ".ue.u'epeikau" like "surprised and in 
awe, aintcha".  This seems like a really handy feature to me.
On Nov 27, 2010 3:12 PM, "John E Clifford" <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:

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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;fon=
t-size:12pt"><div>But, of course, "surprised and in awe, aintcha" is merely=
 a derived sentence fragment, not an expression of a feeling.&nbsp; The mag=
ician is not surprised or awed, nor does he feel that of the watcher empath=
etically.&nbsp; He may feel nothing at all or pride in duping the rubes or =
embarrassment for the same reason and so on.&nbsp; I agree that 'da'oi' as =
described is what you are looking for but you are looking in the wrong plac=
e -- it ain't in UI and related things but in plain old bridi, describing t=
he emotions of another.&nbsp; 'da'oi' is merely a conceptual mistake brough=
t on by the ever-renewed habit of using UI instead of bridi.&nbsp; Notice, =
"surprised and in awe" can be denied, declared false; a UI cannot (though i=
t may be genuine or faked).<br></div><div style=3D"font-family: times new
 roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><br><div style=3D"font-famil=
y: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><font size=3D"2"=
 face=3D"Tahoma"><hr size=3D"1"><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">From:=
</span></b> Luke Bergen &lt;lukeabergen@gmail.com&gt;<br><b><span style=3D"=
font-weight: bold;">To:</span></b> lojban@googlegroups.com<br><b><span styl=
e=3D"font-weight: bold;">Sent:</span></b> Sat, November 27, 2010 2:25:56 PM=
<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lojban] =
Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation<br></font><br>
<p>Yep, da'oi is exactly what I was looking for.&nbsp; ki'e la .remo.</p>
<p>See, john that's actually what I AM looking for.&nbsp; I expect that's s=
omewhat how da'oi to be used.</p>
<p>I would read a magician saying ".ue.u'e da'oi [do]" as something like en=
glish "tada" or as a shortcut for the lojban ".ue.u'epeikau" like "surprise=
d and in awe, aintcha".&nbsp; This seems like a really handy feature to me.=
</p>

<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Nov 27, 2010 3:12 PM, "John E Clifford" &lt;<=
a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:kali9putra@yahoo.com" target=3D"_blank=
" href=3D"mailto:kali9putra@yahoo.com">kali9putra@yahoo.com</a>&gt; wrote:<=
br></div>

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