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Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 13:33:21 -0800 (PST)
From: John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation
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But the first is just two sentences (maybe the second is a rhetorical question, 
but probably not) and the second just an ordinary UI attached to a vocative to 
indicate (pragmatically) that the surprise is at the identity of the object in 
view.  So, in the first 'da'oi' is misused (or rather used according to 
instruction even though the instructions make no sense) and the second doesn't 
even need the empathetic modifier, let alone the more remote connection that 
'da'oi' suggests.




________________________________
From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, November 27, 2010 3:24:25 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation


Oh, from vlasisku I thought that the /preceding/ UI was what was dai'ed to the 
DOIed person.  E.g. "mi viska do .ue da'oi la .remo." for "I see you aren't you 
surprised la remo" vs "mi viska do .ue doi la .remo."  -> "I see you (surprised 
that it's /you/), remo"
On Nov 27, 2010 4:17 PM, "Remo Dentato" <rdentato@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 10:01 PM, Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
>> So just for clarification from other users of da'oi, am I doing it right? Or
>> should I just start using {.oipeikau} (dunno why I hadn't thought of that
>> before).
> 
> I've not used {da'oi} yet but being of selma'o DOI I expect I'll use it like:
> 
> {mi viska da'oi .liuk. .ue }
> 
> to indicate that you were surprise that I had seen you, and
> 
> {mi viska doi .liuk. .ue }
> 
> to indicate that I was surprised to see you.
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
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<html><head><style type=3D"text/css"><!-- DIV {margin:0px;} --></style></he=
ad><body><div style=3D"font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;fon=
t-size:12pt"><div>But the first is just two sentences (maybe the second is =
a rhetorical question, but probably not) and the second just an ordinary UI=
 attached to a vocative to indicate (pragmatically) that the surprise is at=
 the identity of the object in view.&nbsp; So, in the first 'da'oi' is misu=
sed (or rather used according to instruction even though the instructions m=
ake no sense) and the second doesn't even need the empathetic modifier, let=
 alone the more remote connection that 'da'oi' suggests.<br></div><div styl=
e=3D"font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-size: 12pt;"><=
br><div style=3D"font-family: times new roman,new york,times,serif; font-si=
ze: 12pt;"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Tahoma"><hr size=3D"1"><b><span style=
=3D"font-weight: bold;">From:</span></b> Luke Bergen
 &lt;lukeabergen@gmail.com&gt;<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;">To:=
</span></b> lojban@googlegroups.com<br><b><span style=3D"font-weight: bold;=
">Sent:</span></b> Sat, November 27, 2010 3:24:25 PM<br><b><span style=3D"f=
ont-weight: bold;">Subject:</span></b> Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial o=
ther-centric-.ui conversation<br></font><br>
<p>Oh, from vlasisku I thought that the /preceding/ UI was what was dai'ed =
to the DOIed person.&nbsp; E.g. "mi viska do .ue da'oi la .remo." for "I se=
e you aren't you surprised la remo" vs "mi viska do .ue doi la .remo."&nbsp=
; -&gt; "I see you (surprised that it's /you/), remo"</p>

<div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Nov 27, 2010 4:17 PM, "Remo Dentato" &lt;<a r=
el=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:rdentato@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" hre=
f=3D"mailto:rdentato@gmail.com">rdentato@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>&gt; O=
n Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 10:01 PM, Luke Bergen &lt;<a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailt=
o=3D"mailto:lukeabergen@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:lukeabe=
rgen@gmail.com">lukeabergen@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;&gt; So just for clarification from other users of da'oi, am I doing it=
 right? Or<br>&gt;&gt; should I just start using {.oipeikau} (dunno why I h=
adn't thought of that<br>&gt;&gt; before).<br>&gt; <br>&gt; I've not used {=
da'oi} yet but being of selma'o DOI I expect I'll use it like:<br>
&gt; <br>&gt; {mi viska da'oi .liuk. .ue }<br>&gt; <br>&gt; to indicate tha=
t you were surprise that I had seen you, and<br>&gt; <br>&gt; {mi viska doi=
 .liuk. .ue }<br>&gt; <br>&gt; to indicate that I was surprised to see you.=
<br>
&gt; <br>&gt; -- <br>&gt; You received this message because you are subscri=
bed to the Google Groups "lojban" group.<br>&gt; To post to this group, sen=
d email to <a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank" href=3D"mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com">lojban@googlegroup=
s.com</a>.<br>
&gt; To unsubscribe from this group, send email to <a rel=3D"nofollow" ymai=
lto=3D"mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank" href=
=3D"mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com">lojban+unsubscribe@google=
groups.com</a>.<br><span>&gt; For more options, visit this group at <a targ=
et=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den">http:/=
/groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den</a>.</span><br>
&gt; <br></div>

<p></p>

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