From lojban+bncCK7Yk5CUCxDY9cXnBBoErNkGBA@googlegroups.com Sat Nov 27 13:40:54 2010 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PMSVl-00042n-V9; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 13:40:54 -0800 Received: by qwf7 with SMTP id 7sf4213934qwf.16 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 13:40:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=gwfoXTqtTBDFtcloLVrqO1D/1sblB4YG2hVN5FzMZl8=; b=MibSxVBCHquqr6oc7CYgbi6hfSNIb1uBSw1BePP59+A85/+5Oyg4jln+Z8Yc7ZtOS8 n4zHIc/yVN2gWLvSu6KsJyonw1SWZbGB4R/ob/c+kDQTyAb9Uh9IDgXuDVPxii80DXUX 7jOXulNfA+H9mB+3IkFT4vPnvs6VL+h/6WiPU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=hT38N9nD3ZQxElRBqAsoXCMnvquh0/DOcH77ZBMUX8X6LlttCwvSIn8somwNVmJUPK PDw2qyAx8AIoEPcC1ADc5Cx0ELo+e626tGYPcAPHh8vajV7GqZ9dchFvtsU2JgZ8h8rw KxjBwFCome7tpIfgmjZ9OHoJL14qgvZ6bLnoo= Received: by 10.229.43.229 with SMTP id x37mr312601qce.30.1290894040837; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 13:40:40 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.56.161 with SMTP id y33ls1302946qcg.1.p; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 13:40:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.186.141 with SMTP id cs13mr376922qcb.10.1290894039875; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 13:40:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.186.141 with SMTP id cs13mr376921qcb.10.1290894039852; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 13:40:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qw0-f54.google.com (mail-qw0-f54.google.com [209.85.216.54]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id j6si709935qcu.2.2010.11.27.13.40.38; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 13:40:38 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.54 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.54; Received: by qwg8 with SMTP id 8so2278754qwg.13 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 13:40:38 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.224.81 with SMTP id in17mr3242923qcb.81.1290894038566; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 13:40:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.226.15 with HTTP; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 13:40:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <492732.93430.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <696303.3339.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 22:40:38 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation From: Remo Dentato To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: rdentato@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.54 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rdentato@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 10:24 PM, Luke Bergen wrote= : > Oh, from vlasisku I thought that the /preceding/ UI was what was dai'ed t= o > the DOIed person.=A0 E.g. "mi viska do .ue da'oi la .remo." for "I see yo= u > aren't you surprised la remo" vs "mi viska do .ue doi la .remo."=A0 -> "I= see > you (surprised that it's /you/), remo" Well, vlasisku just says that {da'oi} assigns UI to someone else than the speaker and it is part of the DOI selma'o. So my understanding is that like {doi} sets who the listener is, {da'oi} sets who the "feeler" is. Then the UI of that sentence are tied to the preceding sumti. John, UI and brivla are not substitutes one of the other. If I use a UI to express an emotion is to convey something different than just "sayng" that the emotion is felt. If in a natural language I would say something like "I love Alice" I would translate with "mi prami la .alis." but if I would say "Oh! How I love Alice!" I would render it with "mi la ,alis..au prami". I might get it wrong but it seems to me that you consider UI as a bad idea. .remod. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.