From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRCShMbnBBoE3IgunQ@googlegroups.com Sat Nov 27 14:11:45 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PMSzc-0008Od-23; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 14:11:44 -0800 Received: by gyb11 with SMTP id 11sf2636031gyb.16 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 14:11:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=vQxXVe9YLsP6Kejnw7/zFVQYvVyT/t+hkMVrHxk0TgQ=; b=TXQg9z6NR3YRIXE+yrsauSQYVnaD3HLke3EBcpug+lQF+0OVQ3kiF74hkG6y+XU+Mh kteWKqehp1qft6TFJOM4dd0gNHHYaMG9QCPdFrtscWlxLKIffbgfuvkQRqVkDGEwnf94 P9vzON7fiR0equ4bBacWXXG2lAADDDZYZCvrg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=BKjHtytcw7EP+p+5/zs0BHVw5pY4ZUZzNDhSOuySNTpJEh2xXL6RM1jeeTdOop2nRD NE/vqlye4nRwRfAKGNSJml7Dfe5fHEmRk4WVpyvTMuiuKvJBoBaJMw0NW1PTyIzddOZ6 0jMTs1N7iJOjLqk4lIB8Vwv3ck96idEQgNdmA= Received: by 10.151.63.12 with SMTP id q12mr480651ybk.43.1290895890637; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 14:11:30 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.151.127.39 with SMTP id e39ls2049499ybn.2.p; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 14:11:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.151.47.5 with SMTP id z5mr1190655ybj.25.1290895890040; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 14:11:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.151.47.5 with SMTP id z5mr1190654ybj.25.1290895890007; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 14:11:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.118]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id w3si591314ybe.13.2010.11.27.14.11.28; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 14:11:29 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.118 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.118; Received: (qmail 74714 invoked by uid 60001); 27 Nov 2010 22:11:28 -0000 Message-ID: <239006.65986.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: jo8TnKgVM1meH2cFFfxYg02Y5JxZknIP_kkHGagp4xMahMP U2cObbcKt1yfrkS_xIqASfm61YrfWGuU3IuY.0kmauE6nq.c9tJDiOl0dmHI plJ6gCpHFXMK22mCwFd2QITKqYcp8Vs4YODhM_zV8H6N_j3NyxaaMTJjYcAP PRkULHEPvFtG2ZWlPIeiR58MaFVfOH1QaOyfawxmzQY2.sqGTQMJZTqhc9d9 V0LqzSVtQy5oDu59fOtFR02iaDFQlZ1bM327b.cOR67ooMo5KfmOGyAOidZr EqanrO1YI8z.NRsc9xpTqxGyGuRNFObrErftYwHsum70AAGp28.iKb2P..Rs a19Jsg_zcEOL2waDx5fMiGG2x435iIsRUpavPqdb796y_UhVjcXDY6RFM Received: from [99.92.110.13] by web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 14:11:27 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 References: <492732.93430.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <696303.3339.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <359657.74808.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 14:11:27 -0800 (PST) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.118 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Then what is getting expressed by the 'ue'?. It isn't the speakers emotion, so he can't express it, and the person who has the emotion can't express it, since he is not the speaker. I can imagine making a kind of sentence that was built on what other people would express if they were the speaker and even include the UI in it somewhere (in quotes, preferably, but we have gotten a ways away from accuracy of this sort). Indeed, we have such sentences, even in English "He would say 'ue'" for example. ----- Original Message ---- From: Remo Dentato To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Sat, November 27, 2010 3:42:50 PM Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 10:27 PM, John E Clifford wrote: > And what emotion (etc.) did the speaker feel when the listener was surprised to > see him? Nothing relevant comes to mind and it very probably was not surprise, > even empathetically. Exactly. The speaker emotion in {mi viska da'oi .liuk. .ue } is not specified. There's no need for it: either the speaker doesn't want to say or it is clear from the context. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.