From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBD34MbnBBoEUuO8aA@googlegroups.com Sat Nov 27 17:29:41 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PMW5B-0007Up-HH; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 17:29:41 -0800 Received: by yxn35 with SMTP id 35sf2777997yxn.16 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 17:29:31 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=phcDyX/y7WcgxThNn0EhTW6s4EVTn6/LbOLTWehd3U8=; b=57FBP7setW+oeQJL8YIDjrZNSjnGPUQVqG+DXe/3EYBSKCuLqoe3+edK/eQ4eYNRMi Eb7CbDwO9jgb7TMgX9qdNvmVQC3D33xcBbxU7UyQo0r1O6EcpC3RWwUx3J93N4WfmFdE NGWzaeVGTEXmxn9crYfdTCEUs3A1XQ/Y66X18= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=3rlxraRb8YxQeUngXoAB561Nf2qfpKr+iUx49Ucv+KWeX+6MfG11A2kG7V1bA0mK48 jIc+dct9soBnEbsC6l44RWQXUPxwyRtgqFbzraT1LeYr2kwglVSOvglSXczRlWHstYCr RADec8eNdcIsDg6fTfHgqVWNdF3p3QGpHRg6I= Received: by 10.101.125.4 with SMTP id c4mr104672ann.9.1290907767711; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 17:29:27 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.19.201 with SMTP id c9ls1404243ibb.1.p; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 17:29:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.37.138 with SMTP id x10mr868918ibd.5.1290907765870; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 17:29:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.37.138 with SMTP id x10mr868915ibd.5.1290907765824; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 17:29:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f182.google.com (mail-iw0-f182.google.com [209.85.214.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id j25si1360738ibb.4.2010.11.27.17.29.24; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 17:29:24 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.182; Received: by iwn39 with SMTP id 39so4475212iwn.41 for ; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 17:29:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.12.73 with SMTP id w9mr3507463ibw.95.1290907764638; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 17:29:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.199.206 with HTTP; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 17:29:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.199.206 with HTTP; Sat, 27 Nov 2010 17:29:24 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <492732.93430.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <696303.3339.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <593757.57433.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <853082.89324.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sat, 27 Nov 2010 20:29:24 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00032557364abfc7c6049612e265 --00032557364abfc7c6049612e265 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yeah, my understanding of kau has never been very solid though it seems really handy. It's a shame that I don't /really/ get it. Yeah, I guess paunai makes more sense. Though I though that it marked that a question was to follow (or not with nai). Is it ok to say paunai to say that the /preceding/ question isn't really a question at all? On Nov 27, 2010 8:20 PM, "Jorge Llamb=EDas" wrote: > On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Luke Bergen wrote: >> Now that I've remembered the absurdly useful "kau", my understanding of >> da'oi is that it is basically a shortcut for ... peikau doi... e.g. "d= o >> flira farlu .oiro'o da'oi la .nik." =3D "do flira farlu .oiro'opeikau = doi la >> .nik." > > Not quite. "da'oi" can be used to express empathy with a third party, > while "doi" only idenifies your interlocutor. "da'oi" is an expanded > "dai", such that "dai"=3D"da'oi zo'e". > > Also, you may be confusing "kau" with "paunai". "kau" outside of a > subordinate clause will tell you "whatever the answer to this question > is", it is not "this is a rhetorical question". So "oipeikau" is more > like "whether you like it or not, it doesn't really matter what your > answer is". > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com = . > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --00032557364abfc7c6049612e265 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Yeah, my understanding of kau has never been very solid though it seems = really handy.=A0 It's a shame that I don't /really/ get it.=A0

Yeah, I guess paunai makes more sense.=A0 Though I though that it marked= that a question was to follow (or not with nai).=A0 Is it ok to say paunai= to say that the /preceding/ question isn't really a question at all?

On Nov 27, 2010 8:20 PM, "Jorge Llamb=EDas&= quot; <jjllambias@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Lu= ke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.co= m> wrote:
>> Now that I've remembered the absurdly useful "kau", = my understanding of
>> da'oi is that it is basically a shortcu= t for ... peikau doi...=A0 e.g.=A0 "do
>> flira farlu .oiro&#= 39;o da'oi la .nik."=A0 =3D=A0 "do flira farlu .oiro'opei= kau doi la
>> .nik."
>
> Not quite. "da'oi" can = be used to express empathy with a third party,
> while "doi"= ; only idenifies your interlocutor. "da'oi" is an expanded > "dai", such that "dai"=3D"da'oi zo'e&= quot;.
>
> Also, you may be confusing "kau" with &qu= ot;paunai". "kau" outside of a
> subordinate clause wi= ll tell you "whatever the answer to this question
> is", it is not "this is a rhetorical question". So &quo= t;oipeikau" is more
> like "whether you like it or not, it = doesn't really matter what your
> answer is".
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
> --
> You received thi= s message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban"= ; group.
> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>

--
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