Well, empathy does require exactly that you feel "the sam= e" emotion. Incidentally, your last remark, using 'oi' as a verb, is = exactly the problem that that I am worried about and your use suggest that = my worry is not unfounded.

From: Luke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Sat, November 27, 2010 10:58:07 PM=
Subject: Re: [lojban] = Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation

So long as empathy doesn't require that I feel the actual emotion myself= , I'm fine with that. I don't want to say .oidai and accidentally imp= ly that I .oi

On Nov 27, 2010 10:56 PM, "John E. Clifford" <= ;kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote= :
> Thanks! That clarifies matters nicely. So 'da'oi' just marks the= speaker's empathetic sharing of the emotion of someone other than the you = in the situation. So no problem with that. There is a problem, however, i= f the move is made from this expression of my second-hand emotion to either= a claim that the third party is feeling that emotion or an expression of t= hat third party's emotion. It is not clear which of these -- or something e= lse -- the various participants in this discussion are proposing but what t= hey say seems to be one or the other or the two mixed in some not very usef= ul way. In any case, I take it that, in fact, both are quite correctly not= supported in the actual system.
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Nov 27, 2010, at 19:20,= Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gm= ail.com> wrote:
>
> On Sat, Nov 27, 2010 at 9:02 PM, Lu= ke Bergen <lukeabergen@gmail.c= om> wrote:
> Now that I've remembered the absurdly useful "kau", my understanding o= f
> da'oi is that it is basically a shortcut for ... peikau doi... e= .g. "do
> flira farlu .oiro'o da'oi la .nik." =3D "do flira farlu = .oiro'opeikau doi la.nik."
>
> Not quite. "da'oi" can be used to express empathy with a thir= d party,
> while "doi" only idenifies your interlocutor. "da'oi" is a= n expanded
> "dai", such that "dai"=3D"da'oi zo'e".
>
> Also, you may be confusing "kau" with "paunai". "kau" outside= of a
> subordinate clause will tell you "whatever the answer to this= question
> is", it is not "this is a rhetorical question". So "oipei= kau" is more
> like "whether you like it or not, it doesn't really matter what your> answer is".
>
> mu'o mi'e xorxes
>
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