From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRD21MnnBBoENvcJTw@googlegroups.com Sun Nov 28 06:43:17 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PMiTB-00062m-Qv; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 06:43:16 -0800 Received: by gxk19 with SMTP id 19sf3142959gxk.16 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 06:43:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=QioB3Fg5C2RvgW4tBANkKpMcF23r+3tUS8hC3OQH+vc=; b=FjamCZdEfiCvXFyeWnTijaiMYpb9OOUnupoNgukP6p3MLYcHjzyZCmaN8MbITu6mGR axniHgyRvrLl1MZPNVCaWAWLsuaZLztx63IkC/4FZkBjjtU1RpQoONn9L5aqRBsgRA16 DZYejKNi/yR1FfCNzrZ0W6P3USRP2KfyGt+MI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=GjFS2ApQ+62RbIfLAYruOgPUO2tNj0z14BvS807aGbvmb/XU23QmSxad1ex5M7Qf+D N3ix+5YBEvW15dZ6Y1V/riDRJtlGj+fizqPT/3LK9akA+26uuohONs0jXoyTkQIk6/lg J/qwL1Of3nwlJR0fTy53UpKF6ZxU216HQN5Fc= Received: by 10.90.3.14 with SMTP id 14mr350989agc.43.1290955382683; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 06:43:02 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.100.47.18 with SMTP id u18ls913356anu.5.p; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 06:43:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.131.1 with SMTP id e1mr814516and.58.1290955381994; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 06:43:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.131.1 with SMTP id e1mr814514and.58.1290955381976; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 06:43:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.118]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id b27si938197ana.1.2010.11.28.06.43.00; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 06:43:00 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.118 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.118; Received: (qmail 51628 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Nov 2010 14:43:00 -0000 Message-ID: <387420.51548.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: fv1LFzQVM1nz6RVGXLj821GAf3ExnDqxmMBeXIbD9zP_9iy 6421Qyzw_a9VFcGjjPQia.0taEQX4u8JkpOgtBl02us8CPHX0cgsh0ok.ja7 1QDsCqJO.RTT4g0SRYoVj6x82ZHAvu57wBrqUjIBIbE1xMegbAdVcbcBI1Sp j2qFxaBpOCXHTrL3YH1eRfsYWIc.ZNR_Uie1HMwe.q.FZVMcCc.3ccseJrSl XFpaQbo1TSwQW9T85dMaU0mb_zabtgc6gvrlAUFGsCyMvOkqV0tx0grl.7G. S9C3UegP0Tw87tlZCBFxMfqf_ZukCexkePpr3Q0yjiIJsr8mPKOdS35HvXNO akIX3ktoHtyPd16Pist_xYUNrrNUn6hfrcLM22LLKhzwQXW0Vv_C4iBF_ Received: from [99.92.110.13] by web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 06:43:00 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 References: <659354.26852.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <361998.43098.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 06:43:00 -0800 (PST) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perennial other-centric-.ui conversation To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.118 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Right as usual; I apologize for generalizing beyond the data. My only=20 disagreement would be over whether "I am truly surprised" must make a claim= any=20 more than "I hope he comes" does.As for UI, the interesting question is whe= ther=20 all are expressions of some emotion (in a veeerry broad sense). Some of th= em=20 typically are combined with sentences and affect the status of that sentenc= e,=20 but the whole might still reasonably be called an expression. There are a = few=20 that are harder to place. ----- Original Message ---- From: Jorge Llamb=EDas To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, November 28, 2010 7:34:59 AM Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 9:49 AM, John E Clifford wro= te: > Exactly, and the latter two are linguistic but of very different linguist= ic > types. I would say that expressing may or may not be linguistic, and that it is not a linguistic type that contrasts with claiming. Suppose that John is surprised. That is obviously not a linguistic matter, it's just something that happens. But John may express his surprise in many different ways: (1) By opening his mouth very widely. (2) By saying "Holy shit!" (3) By saying "I am truly surprised." (4) By doing all of the above. All of those are perfectly good ways to express surprise. (1) is non-linguistic, (2) and (3) are linguistic. (3) also makes a claim, but all can be used to express surprise. (2) is linguistic but does not make any claim. Saying "ue" is of course like (2). It is a linguistic way of expressing surprise, not by making a claim but by making an exclamation. Also, not all UIs are used to make exclamations, which is one of the unwarranted overgeneralizations that are sometimes made. UIs have several other uses. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= =20 "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to=20 lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at=20 http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.