From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRC8nsvnBBoEnjK3yQ@googlegroups.com Sun Nov 28 13:53:15 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PMpBI-0003S1-A0; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:53:15 -0800 Received: by wwb17 with SMTP id 17sf1259591wwb.16 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:53:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=NeJOmjFYyTnwy5PR6HvUsygTQ6WlhVv2Ua3jx/IK99U=; b=e4f2leb/CJWhx5XRZE8Z4Odp8lD9DehARf/nxu9CPfWFjBjlQ6uAL7SbJ2W1jcbMyZ 4oPogftOGsikBQkUu4ZSy9f9yL1LgOhVyV3xhozBqh9BrKIE9JDDsubttjFZidhHqVQ1 MbSEauz7CX+bqrmtVRm262UrCBX3yWi8z1NKM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=BtmfM5M2N3IvPK6JyIcA/3ztRHHWrdHcHICOS4lN5h0QBrAu/6cCZyYogzi4XKa91w ywcaUbpkF2MNKp9iP/Jgl+fRwIjqO6eBMsWHXihp126SvVWkKnbw7/LqLIZFMB0eG/Dh 0QGXqsrW3XbRoa4xGrhOJXYWsJ1I39lWGtAZ0= Received: by 10.216.71.85 with SMTP id q63mr1136975wed.9.1290981180058; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:53:00 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.62.75 with SMTP id x53ls2093692wec.3.p; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:52:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.140.23 with SMTP id d23mr448391wej.1.1290981174827; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:52:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.140.23 with SMTP id d23mr448388wej.1.1290981171110; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:52:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wy0-f178.google.com (mail-wy0-f178.google.com [74.125.82.178]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id l2si500074weq.5.2010.11.28.13.52.50; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:52:50 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.178 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.178; Received: by wyb42 with SMTP id 42so3997746wyb.37 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:52:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.155.15 with SMTP id q15mr5109759wbw.141.1290981169834; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:52:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.138.16 with HTTP; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 13:52:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <605319.19000.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <659354.26852.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <604115.16202.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <752705.36302.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <822423.65423.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <605319.19000.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 18:52:49 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.178 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 6:10 PM, John E Clifford wrote: > So, the question is how a word that expresses the speaker's emotions comes > to have a propositional function: How are you feeling on the happiness > scale? No, "ui pei" just asks the interlocutor to express themself using the "ui ___" format. The paraphrase "How are you feeling on the happiness sacle?" is just that, a paraphrase. > So, here > is a cute dodge; never mind it literally makes no sense (indeed, a mark of a > good idiom). It makes as much sense as any other question. > The other UICAI are expressions of MY emotion; this is now > suddenly of YOURS which, of course makes no sense. When I make I claim, say "la .djan. klama lo zarci", the claim is MY claim. When I ask a question, the bridi is sudenly no longer MY claim, but a pattern for you to make a claim. The relationship between "ui pei" and "ui sai" is no different from that between "la .djan. klama ma" and "la .djan. klama lo zarci" in that respect. > The problems seems to > lie ultimately with 'pei' itself: it calls upon a person to express his > emotion, but not as an expression of an emotion, rather as an factual answer > to a factual question No, "ui pei" asks the person to respond "ui ja'ai" or "ui nai" (or any of the other possibilities). mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.