From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRD_usvnBBoE4ErlUw@googlegroups.com Sun Nov 28 14:54:10 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PMq8A-0006IO-Ty; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 14:54:09 -0800 Received: by gxk19 with SMTP id 19sf3403361gxk.16 for ; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 14:53:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=pBvvoeIBc6UlHz1/r9ffPd8YGdZXDeGSphCUNjk5J9M=; b=oH9mlkUESO/n1Ao+y86M1pfGNIN8vtUuo4iiCudTZrfAU9Y5G6RRHKj+HIwiDCDobw VptsYS7AAuvT3XRS8Uz1ySi26o5Q5dlrY9GjoTVZseU9heFBJWoUsuzGBelQ4JzJCJ3L I0eFsHDKLS0bOwWNrmkFcnkU3BdLzntYXqdpU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=o90pfEI+KIJBiP/r0uwiRFbff/49hv81im5gMdpc8Z4imY4Fp8FieyvScLrRBGAJsV HiaivS6lXppPlcU1+g0tu4laFPDdunUedUZTr1s5MgwssLGSTBD5TQjKiE3YMlnRymRp cdfsJhqAGYBOkFgeiWhRsWueSEH+8Ly0Dq5FI= Received: by 10.151.116.16 with SMTP id t16mr568394ybm.40.1290984831523; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 14:53:51 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.151.135.18 with SMTP id m18ls3086318ybn.1.p; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 14:53:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.150.50.14 with SMTP id x14mr1425800ybx.17.1290984830152; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 14:53:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.150.50.14 with SMTP id x14mr1425799ybx.17.1290984830065; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 14:53:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.123]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id f46si716049yhc.8.2010.11.28.14.53.48; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 14:53:49 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.123 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.123; Received: (qmail 5206 invoked by uid 60001); 28 Nov 2010 22:53:48 -0000 Message-ID: <372495.5101.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 6nXYPTwVM1nDzZWelitgytpt7X8a59itA3gCzXf8WYI54w7 LOIk.pjnOro9buLO0lWJb_ZIIpDCKi1xwmGfMA4wGR63BEPQDg72eSJELOfK Dzd3TC_LdFLAR0kZA.NK2ZzRaWJzIj1iuM38YsA9TJuY.tpuBdVQxveYuNsf _XwscmLCZBtVCoQnvxOpGNd4.0QGDz.3zhk5wdWe3MVVFdYz6.k9asS7cQBY QSid3g2whjMD3QvwAl.MqKPcLiXaXs9_2wdQC3a_YLgmBofpK73x9ZNF1wG7 yxfgosFep7mui7QuHXbKSyVgQLDI2nsGXMVfZ.fUKWBYU220r52GWcGzFBTE qUMlZNGqa4xbDs73x09Pju4WlHO1V_WpkfV6THPyUwjYQu.EhPOXqf3oo Received: from [99.92.110.13] by web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Sun, 28 Nov 2010 14:53:47 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 References: <659354.26852.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <466173.78231.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 28 Nov 2010 14:53:47 -0800 (PST) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.123 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, in that case, 'zo'o' is back in the "fair warning" category: "Don't t= ake=20 this seriously" but it does not say that I think it is funny. And it is= =20 certainly not a laugh, which I take 'u'i' to be. You keep insisting that '= zo'o'=20 marks my speech not someone else, contrary to at least a few cases to be fo= und=20 in the annals, but then you have no problem with 'ui' being someone else=20 emotion. I suppose you are right about the proper use of 'zo'o' though you= r=20 original remarks were not perfectly clear (obviously). But that does not m= ake=20 your point, merely restricts it to a more limited set of cases, satirists, = say.=20 On the other side, I have cracked up giving a funeral eulogy and have seen= =20 several others do similar things (indeed, one identical one -- with a diffe= rent=20 urn). Yeah we are cuckoo, not that any other country is in a position to judge. = The=20 most common murder/mayhem scenario is that the surprisee reacts instantly t= o the=20 presents of a lot of people in a dark room and just blasts away (I admit th= at=20 particular response is almost uniquely American and almost only possible in= =20 America). Most of the others involve someone thinking that the person comin= g in=20 is not the surprisee (this typically involves a long pre-party party). The= =20 point is that this kind of surprise party is not uncommon (it is also a fre= quent=20 request at significant birthdays, say, "No surprise party, please!") ----- Original Message ---- From: Jorge Llamb=EDas To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Sun, November 28, 2010 4:05:00 PM Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 6:26 PM, John E Clifford wro= te: > Saying something is meant as humor > but I am not amused is one of the most common moves in watching and criti= quing > tv shows, for one example, Saying *that something I'm saying* is meant as humor, not that something someone else has said was meant as humor. "zo'o" marks the speaker's speech, not someone else's speech. > and being ammused by something that was not meant to > be funny is a painful memory from both sides for most people. We are talking about being amused *by something you are saying*, not by something someone else has said. "zo'o" marks your own speech, not someone else's. > In the US at least surprise parties of the dark room-lights up-shout=20 "surprise" > sort are common enough to be a recognized listing on incident reports:=20 murders, > beating, heart attacks, etc. (Ils sont fous ces am=E9ricains.) I can see a possible connection with heart attacks, but I'm not sure I see how it relates to murders and beatings. Is the person being surprised the murderer or the murdered one, and why? mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= =20 "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to=20 lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at=20 http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.