From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRC1h8_nBBoENZdFzQ@googlegroups.com Mon Nov 29 07:16:17 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PN5Se-0003bW-7q; Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:16:17 -0800 Received: by gwj17 with SMTP id 17sf1040566gwj.16 for ; Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:16:06 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=ZuZPOFVRgtn7MbC4HUNCIWfzuGt+y8ONs0XN5+KWPTg=; b=m/kXZTgfTX8nX4+3kDmKs32GAFTWALB8lbtPf4iR8enQxBwutPJpOb6NGRBdj/vcm4 bl2KMmhclcymvbAjlgRUAPpT0/K3oc3hajjv8zPqLHrnOOAdys7zrFBp0iVUK38+OscL 8qH1l3II0+GiUZA+ilpvQVgVyrmbZavHlmzTk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=gDf0dcyhF7zAiC1UfxoB4KVHvzzW+ZSW99UFvu65VE13KD1gk3T965mq/dXscRHkW8 PkcBOhlMFbBDbLmicekfuBxbQ3U8MTbEO5rnBdtiI5rd19GmS1rs6WAv003l/dfWg2lI 12s69l6WOaqW6TC6LDK6px1fxNlecWtRstiGc= Received: by 10.100.38.9 with SMTP id l9mr128425anl.66.1291043765333; Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:16:05 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.100.22.18 with SMTP id 18ls1106406anv.1.p; Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:16:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.242.19 with SMTP id p19mr1061821anh.26.1291043764658; Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:16:04 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.242.19 with SMTP id p19mr1061820anh.26.1291043764630; Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:16:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.119]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id b27si1197749ana.1.2010.11.29.07.16.03; Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:16:03 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.119 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.119; Received: (qmail 24809 invoked by uid 60001); 29 Nov 2010 15:16:03 -0000 Message-ID: <898250.24006.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: l0beq.sVM1kbr46kkSkdJmjj2PRwekb_mhwHXgSBdWoWXHJ To22XEPSNs2AAmCVd8Hg_0tUNO2eodscqZan3fjZPLD49rffb1rieLG7YWni q.hNz7ClRf8qy5h.DKqL.vWRiuGG31N5jIOqy.pUe78A2X7KT.fds_g5QqyF XF6DCHZH4KsXr2dGDRP8KQWyonXE3kOiVNbwXHBT0.li_O5utuulLiZzFk8n i4GhXDfd8Pl_5CLk4fLU75QJYjS4CMIB1KU.IzZO_NErIkXm9kjnnVWz_o1h tp1xK2r55ElzNy2mk.4SKNjGewjHv9CzVZvN07vPePPQidLXZqhxULbsoHTr wOuDXEcIJ5VaE9j.AouM97Pq0en28Xw-- Received: from [99.92.110.13] by web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:16:02 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 References: <659354.26852.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <604115.16202.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <752705.36302.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <822423.65423.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <605319.19000.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <433664.89554.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <34382.7549.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 07:16:02 -0800 (PST) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.119 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Well, yes, given we have the idiom, extending it to new cases seems perfect= ly=20 reasonable (once you shoot a hole in balloon, you might just as well tear t= he=20 whole thing up as you plunge downward). 'bu'au pei' would still be a dumb= =20 question, since it can't meaningfully have the answer 'nai' and any positiv= e=20 answer would be not specifically informative, i.e., 'cai' would be no diffe= rent=20 from 'cu'i' or 'ro'e' -- contrary to the purported purpose of the idiom, A= gain,=20 this is not my amalogy and I fon't give much weight to it either way. ----- Original Message ---- From: Jorge Llamb=EDas To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Mon, November 29, 2010 7:27:18 AM Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 12:33 AM, John E Clifford wr= ote: > There is, after all, no grunts > and wheezes that ask where one is in three (or four or more) space, one a= sks > "Where the fugawee?" Why should the matter be different for emotional > space? If there was a UI that was used to express you were at some particular point in space, then tagging it with "pei" would be a perfectly reasonable way to ask whether you were there. There aren't any spatial points that are special enough across points and general enough across people to have a UI assigned to express our being there, and also it does not seem to be something humans feel compelled to express. Maybe a UI for "I'm here!" wouldn't be unreasonable. If there was such a UI, we could use it to ask, although it would probably make more sense as a COI. Let's say "bu'au" was such a COI. Then "bu'au pei " would be a good way to do a roll call. mu'o mi'e xorxes. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= =20 "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to=20 lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at=20 http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.