From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBCRwNTnBBoES58jbw@googlegroups.com Tue Nov 30 08:02:40 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PNSf5-0001ri-3U; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 08:02:40 -0800 Received: by gwj17 with SMTP id 17sf1981171gwj.16 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 08:02:29 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=5nw1gghaY7ZaF3LNsnr2ZK7WmLmjs4hz7PEN+l8as+w=; b=q4HikxlTHfSbN8EXYgTDe20ZAlbtnc18QeGdEURU0D3rbwB+INt6DewtDdOSuxJHZv OsmjnrltkPolb45f0ljAAx38d/ymafWDTrhEX1bnhw7bxUwRd1ewSrMB41Nag0gVaBU9 cUzsArBOU3pBarDh/sHMLxfcG3NZ1u+VmL8uI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=yYbDmZu5clhbq84MCdqCThwLtRJ1KWDSQJEc6k4Hc/g21SJi9Z74auLxQrsuo+lfG0 CO9+bDhEBjnpmqk8ax0kXF8SQZSnfx6PZffUL0sJeUyAnNbZbDULzMRJnqHpwmigBcUo Zbf6jNtYmPqQy2VPd3rfeX7j5ZzmTqhUTUwmc= Received: by 10.150.162.16 with SMTP id k16mr789770ybe.2.1291132945534; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 08:02:25 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.56.35 with SMTP id e35ls4071807yba.5.p; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 08:02:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.151.146.1 with SMTP id y1mr828270ybn.30.1291132944636; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 08:02:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.151.146.1 with SMTP id y1mr828269ybn.30.1291132944564; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 08:02:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yx0-f173.google.com (mail-yx0-f173.google.com [209.85.213.173]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id t55si908513yhc.15.2010.11.30.08.02.23; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 08:02:23 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.213.173 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.213.173; Received: by mail-yx0-f173.google.com with SMTP id 31so3015001yxl.4 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 08:02:23 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.167.67 with SMTP id p3mr7407829iby.20.1291132943262; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 08:02:23 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.199.206 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 08:02:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <547f2fd5-c8a4-4dec-acee-97412386bf83@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com> References: <547f2fd5-c8a4-4dec-acee-97412386bf83@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com> Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 11:02:23 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Question about apparent inconsistency with "nixli". From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.213.173 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001636c5a7a570e5b104964750be --001636c5a7a570e5b104964750be Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 The gismu were created using a scoring algorithm that attempted to make them as much like the word for that concept in the 6 most spoken languages in the world at the time. So it is only by coincidence that nanmu, ninmu, and nanla seem to have this pattern. I agree, it would be nice if nixli fit the accidental pattern though. In fact, I kind of wish that something less arbitrary in general had been used for the gismu list. Not using the metric that we used might have helped with other little problems as well like similar sounding gismu for similar concepts (which can be confusing). :( On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 7:18 AM, Pan Mistwood wrote: > Back when I first dove into learning Lojban, I noticed an apparent > inconsistency with four gismu. And as far as I can tell, there's no > reason for it, but I could be mistaken. So, after much > procrastination, I'm asking about it here. (And as far as I could find > with Google Web search and a search within this group, it hasn't been > brought up before, which is rather surprising to me.) > > The gismu "nanmu" virtually means the English "man" or, more > generally, "male humanoid". The gismu "ninmu" virtually means the > English "woman" or "female humanoid". The gismu "nanla" virtually > means the English "boy". Now, I understand that they are not preferred > over the gismu "verba", "remna", and "prenu", but they do exist and > are recognised as Lojbanic gismu. > > From those gismu, I can see a pattern. "nanmu" and "nanla" share "na-" > while "nanla" and "nanmu" share "-mu". Following this pattern, the > gismu virtually meaning the English "girl" would be "ninla"; "ni-" as > in "ninmu" and "-la" as in "nanla". However, the gismu is actually > "nixli". My question: as "ninla" is valid gismu syntax, is consistent > with "nanmu", "nanla", and "ninmu", and is not already used to mean > something else, why is "nixli" used instead? > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --001636c5a7a570e5b104964750be Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The gismu were created using a scoring algorithm that attempted to make the= m as much like the word for that concept in the 6 most spoken languages in = the world at the time.

So it is only by coincidence that= nanmu, ninmu, and nanla seem to have this pattern. =A0I agree, it would be= nice if nixli fit the accidental pattern though. =A0In fact, I kind of wis= h that something less arbitrary in general had been used for the gismu list= . =A0Not using the metric that we used might have helped with other little = problems as well like similar sounding gismu for similar concepts (which ca= n be confusing). =A0:(

On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 7:18 AM, Pan Mistwoo= d <panmistwoo= d@gmail.com> wrote:
Back when I first dove into learning Lojban, I noticed an apparent
inconsistency with four gismu. And as far as I can tell, there's no
reason for it, but I could be mistaken. So, after much
procrastination, I'm asking about it here. (And as far as I could find<= br> with Google Web search and a search within this group, it hasn't been brought up before, which is rather surprising to me.)

The gismu "nanmu" virtually means the English "man" or,= more
generally, "male humanoid". The gismu "ninmu" virtually= means the
English "woman" or "female humanoid". The gismu "n= anla" virtually
means the English "boy". Now, I understand that they are not pref= erred
over the gismu "verba", "remna", and "prenu",= but they do exist and
are recognised as Lojbanic gismu.

From those gismu, I can see a pattern. "nanmu" and "nanla&qu= ot; share "na-"
while "nanla" and "nanmu" share "-mu". Follow= ing this pattern, the
gismu virtually meaning the English "girl" would be "ninla&q= uot;; "ni-" as
in "ninmu" and "-la" as in "nanla". However, = the gismu is actually
"nixli". My question: as "ninla" is valid gismu syntax,= is consistent
with "nanmu", "nanla", and "ninmu", and is no= t already used to mean
something else, why is "nixli" used instead?

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