From lojban+bncCJXJ1o3JGhDt49TnBBoEJNF0hQ@googlegroups.com Tue Nov 30 09:18:50 2010 Received: from mail-px0-f189.google.com ([209.85.212.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PNTqo-0007Ac-Qc; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 09:18:50 -0800 Received: by pxi19 with SMTP id 19sf2212248pxi.16 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 09:18:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:mime-version :received:received:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references:user-agent :x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=EpyqGCC3gwi/E3leiEOpTlGb2F0fj+NJSrL54Lg2UL4=; b=pRBZEzibyt7JA2MFQT4KuOaGI897IWVfcc4YikYhJjrldw3a+PB3bL+eijLmYYDs87 hdbsuB+Svl6aOy8W0jgFUGmtuYU4+UMCtYFlxC8vt90SkUD6zi7HQ9JF2+nUvbkfK+zt aQry99PKmMS6JYAulzuUMth5M8Aj96KILLE2Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references :user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=JiXXA7zHw6vKcAnvmDErn/oGtAbVANEk5g+I2ITVmGblFhgB3okOufrzNcijwg/N+u 23jYAp0lcgTrAG5nupV8ZhI86BPNX+LSdgIzvl5OPz/G9vblTOAWQo61TZ7RFrNu1+Pe 2cGQXTxSzhHBQ0iKDddNy3d8roo/SoSpKPsZc= Received: by 10.143.26.28 with SMTP id d28mr306300wfj.0.1291137517507; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 09:18:37 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.2.41 with SMTP id 41ls10303128wfb.0.p; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 09:18:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.143.20.30 with SMTP id x30mr300558wfi.68.1291137516189; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 09:18:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by z26g2000prf.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 09:18:36 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 09:18:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-IP: 76.174.199.98 References: <547f2fd5-c8a4-4dec-acee-97412386bf83@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.13 (KHTML, like Gecko) Ubuntu/10.10 Chromium/9.0.595.0 Chrome/9.0.595.0 Safari/534.13,gzip(gfe) Message-ID: <8f931398-cfaa-49f4-91e0-d53d6626e976@z26g2000prf.googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: Question about apparent inconsistency with "nixli". From: Pan Mistwood To: lojban X-Original-Sender: panmistwood@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable OK, your detailed explanation shows why the algorithm would have resulted in the words it did. A pity such patterns were overlooked with the method used to generate the gismu. Anyway, thank you! On Nov 30, 8:03=C2=A0am, Oren wrote: > coi pan, > > The patterns weren't designed that way. Gismu were all generated to > approximate common words (with weights for more spoken languages) from th= e > six original source languages. It just so happens that: > > English:"man", Chinese"nanren", Arabic: "nsan" etc..-> { nanmu } > Chinese"nanhai", Spanish "ninio," Arabic: "uladn" etc.. -> { nanla } > > I guess the abundance of "nan"-like syllables in natural languages was in > part to the (weighted) chinese character "nan" (=E7=94=B7) that's in both= of them, > in conjunction with similar coincidental syllables in other heavily weigh= ted > languages. > > The female counterpart "ni" (=E5=A5=B3) character seems to have also infl= uenced the > female gismus, but without as much agreement on that second consonant. > > Hope that clears it up a little! > > co'o > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 07:18, Pan Mistwood wrote= : > > Back when I first dove into learning Lojban, I noticed an apparent > > inconsistency with four gismu. And as far as I can tell, there's no > > reason for it, but I could be mistaken. So, after much > > procrastination, I'm asking about it here. (And as far as I could find > > with Google Web search and a search within this group, it hasn't been > > brought up before, which is rather surprising to me.) > > > The gismu "nanmu" virtually means the English "man" or, more > > generally, "male humanoid". The gismu "ninmu" virtually means the > > English "woman" or "female humanoid". The gismu "nanla" virtually > > means the English "boy". Now, I understand that they are not preferred > > over the gismu "verba", "remna", and "prenu", but they do exist and > > are recognised as Lojbanic gismu. > > > From those gismu, I can see a pattern. "nanmu" and "nanla" share "na-" > > while "nanla" and "nanmu" share "-mu". Following this pattern, the > > gismu virtually meaning the English "girl" would be "ninla"; "ni-" as > > in "ninmu" and "-la" as in "nanla". However, the gismu is actually > > "nixli". My question: as "ninla" is valid gismu syntax, is consistent > > with "nanmu", "nanla", and "ninmu", and is not already used to mean > > something else, why is "nixli" used instead? > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps > > "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > -- > Oren Robinson > (315) 569-2888 > 102 Morrison Ave > Somerville, MA 02144 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.