From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDvrtbnBBoEL0VCSA@googlegroups.com Tue Nov 30 16:31:59 2010 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PNaby-0004By-V3; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:31:58 -0800 Received: by wyb35 with SMTP id 35sf4964884wyb.16 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:31:48 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=JFeqfCkb4J1MDim/7C2qByjUrPRmu04KStzTkWIWNwc=; b=yijUlZTeEr6CVQorkMS4crBiQ2QBw5RQ+Foa26HRZKhNzXgEwpMjj9IR/6oC27wNLo C6sBZ6zDXuiuVt8YvH/M0kL33ZWZBCUkIBrZaTSKuFPyHPwAYeqTcIockx3OALEJkPBA g6n40g6qEIPUsxBl4SRJql+kFXtLZHBpGc2oI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=qz5q021VnkqAfkBt8yQmZafnnwXwkePbZaNkc5j2ujfITFY7MpYGvPEOMv/qU6Un8f tk3huq+klF17GpZVc6fPTPvT2v3VJPhbakDlWIQgEhtASM5Ag+zAm56WUXIrlnTQrnqy COzbYF0icSf7yFzythgUPSUM7h+SoPw28GTaQ= Received: by 10.216.28.207 with SMTP id g57mr294521wea.5.1291163503809; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:31:43 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.208.4 with SMTP id p4ls2939465weo.2.p; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:31:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.150.167 with SMTP id z39mr81957wej.10.1291163502674; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:31:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.216.150.167 with SMTP id z39mr81956wej.10.1291163502654; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:31:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ww0-f41.google.com (mail-ww0-f41.google.com [74.125.82.41]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id l2si794541weq.13.2010.11.30.16.31.41; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:31:41 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.41 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.41; Received: by wwi18 with SMTP id 18so356409wwi.4 for ; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:31:41 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.134.142 with SMTP id j14mr8602173wbt.228.1291163501300; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:31:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.138.16 with HTTP; Tue, 30 Nov 2010 16:31:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 21:31:41 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Smart.fm error From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.41 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 8:55 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >> >> The definition for {cusku} on Smart.fm is currently >> >> "x1 says x2 for audience x3 via medium x4" >> >> This is incorrect. The English word "says" carries with it the implied >> meaning that it was verbally spoken. No it doesn't, not necessarily. And even if it did, it wouldn't follow that= : >> "x1=A0expresses x2 for audience x3 via medium x4" was better. That's simply wrong. You say words, you express meanings. You say "thank you", you express gratitude. You say "I love you", you express your feelings. You cusku words, you cusku "thank you", you cusku "I love you". You don't cusku meanings, gratitude or your feelings. "x1 says x2 to x3 via medium x4" is a much more accurate translation of "cusku" than the version with "expresses", despite the gi'uste's unfortunate choice of keyword. And "via medium x4" makes it plain that this is not restricted to bacru, in case you were tempted to use such an artificially restricted meaning of "say". Of course words do have meanings, so when you say words you are also expressing their meanings, but what goes in x2 are the words, not the meanings. But didn't we have this year's turn at this conversation already? Or was that last year? >> I am making this announcement on the Beginner's list as well in hopes th= at >> those of us who are using the lesson will be forewarned of this regretta= ble >> error, and also to hopefully shame the perpetrator a bit. :) The perpetrator should be commended, not shamed. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.