From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRDWz8XmBBoEBf25PA@googlegroups.com Wed Nov 03 06:47:16 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PDdgH-0000LB-1r; Wed, 03 Nov 2010 06:47:16 -0700 Received: by wwb34 with SMTP id 34sf438955wwb.16 for ; Wed, 03 Nov 2010 06:47:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=nAms7SKEHm/6KLloQ02N58l+85DWy0yQWqiaM5eFt00=; b=Yd6zTkLMdhYklyaMyzHNjfC3nZoGqjZS695/NfAxOLkfs/OeXTqSL4Jiulcn2rzbE/ ZxwVTcZ8jR8gO5iU7fTkDsvb26UqqEFDsYpJOQKR7vz6DwkGo23CTxGW4/+iQ7ExHVkf uJZFhwEViJBhlcj52axveavJR1ZVR6T+4detQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=wsvRP2IfCtCnmHQQKHusP/XQCMiLuDpreq4BiDa0YQkBVRNvoBxq7JuY40n/2fP6oE wR1sH8mNTWTlEbw80RpXxqIbm5b53gXthgP9b/PnhJx1rXJZ8OX+iOFoivZjK+YKwiZZ M99Hx6V1kTn4zklM2GHgnH2Bmh+QTzBi7Zes4= Received: by 10.216.231.154 with SMTP id l26mr2621437weq.24.1288792022555; Wed, 03 Nov 2010 06:47:02 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.216.5.203 with SMTP id 53ls512562wel.3.p; Wed, 03 Nov 2010 06:47:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.220.221 with SMTP id o71mr966874wep.2.1288792021527; Wed, 03 Nov 2010 06:47:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.216.220.221 with SMTP id o71mr966873wep.2.1288792021470; Wed, 03 Nov 2010 06:47:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ww0-f48.google.com (mail-ww0-f48.google.com [74.125.82.48]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id a52si2700080wer.0.2010.11.03.06.47.00; Wed, 03 Nov 2010 06:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.48 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.48; Received: by wwb39 with SMTP id 39so636388wwb.5 for ; Wed, 03 Nov 2010 06:47:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.138.71 with SMTP id z7mr6539288wbt.23.1288792020042; Wed, 03 Nov 2010 06:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.227.32.140 with HTTP; Wed, 3 Nov 2010 06:47:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20101102040903.GA10493@alice.local> <4e1aec20-2d77-4473-a6e3-780700105315@v20g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> <924334.40683.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20101102191856.GE10792@alice.local> <92fe62fc-36e3-4d93-938c-30c010d937e5@v20g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> <91643.97322.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <28a32f6d-464a-4ad1-b69b-accfe7e2e231@l8g2000yql.googlegroups.com> Date: Wed, 3 Nov 2010 10:47:00 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: mi kakne lo bajra From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.48 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 10:24 AM, Luke Bergen wrote: > But you say that {mi djica lo plise} is acceptable because it's doing som= e > kind of on-the-sly sumti raising of "lo nu citka lo plise" or something, Nothing on-the-sly about it. > then what would be wrong with {mi djuno do}? .i do djuno mi ma "mi" is not a proposition. Events and objects are essentially the same type of things, the type of things that can be seen, smelled, sensed, touched, sensed, propositions are not that type of thing. >=A0If we're going to allow implicit {tu'a}'s in some places, I never said that. I don't think it's a good idea to allow implicit "tu'a"s at all. > then we should allow them everywhere. =A0{mi > se cinri la mynapoli} should be understood to really=A0mean {mi se cinri = tu'a > la mynapoli}. No, it should be understood as "mi se cinri la mynapolis", perfectly fine and no "tu'a"s involved. > And honestly, I think I'd be ok with that. =A0If a brivla seems like it s= hould > take an event in one of its slots, and instead you find lo bliku, make th= e > assumption that it's really {lo nu lo bliku co'e} i.e. {tu'a lo bliku}. > =A0Doing this would be fine with me.... Not at all fine with me. > IF we did it consistently. > But to say in one breath that {mi djica lo plise} is fine, but {mi djuno = do} > is not fine seems inconsistent. =A0And I like my lojban without > inconsistencies. I don't see the inconsistency. Can you write down in Lojban the definitions of "djica" and "djuno" that you have in mind that make those two comparable? I already gave you an (approximate) definition for "djica". One for "djuno would be (roughly) something like: ko'a djuno ko'e ko'i ko'o =3D ko'a krici ko'e ko'i .ije ko'e jetnu ko'o We can argue about the details, but that's the basic meaning. Neither "ko'a krici mi" nor "mi jetnu" make sense to me. Maybe you have a different meaning for "djuno" in mind? (And don't use the polysemous English word "know", please.) mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.