From lojban+bncCJGY6cDlFhDc98HmBBoE6g15yg@googlegroups.com Tue Nov 02 14:00:23 2010 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PDNxp-0005VO-9J; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:00:23 -0700 Received: by mail-fx0-f61.google.com with SMTP id 13sf1763095fxm.16 for ; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:00:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:mime-version:received :in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=bUaTWDqjohC8cvL2tg4WfcMChHQu0ui2s3oysPZQzp8=; b=BZv/QfusF+wraLpFmUzut2e+UYNr6HUPuf/Nn+unuLX/v5LHE/g0kG95+OeRauAVuB /F9bXQ7AZ6MZqFqIOUHtZ2pIk5IFKGrqbqT7kQMNrdbReIhYvmxIQ7fAi+nvv/5KNCPc LZxwze9uY9vioiuqtt9Dwvao2wLeJaIoyRra4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=S19LAZQ3k4mxromH0b6oFEAb9E6Q6d2HbaS2WOoduSxGdPWMpgQpTWE7cfA8RcCyj2 55KAKQLbJiEIOQEaRs5DNpiNnv3y1prTACJOpQMFsu/t0ZtbWjYNmDEWGSGW7gJUuY3R gojmC4dxAXoYf+CGpw68iu4b2BXLlQpvWqb0s= Received: by 10.223.75.196 with SMTP id z4mr605678faj.28.1288731612858; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:00:12 -0700 (PDT) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.29.18 with SMTP id o18ls176469bkc.3.p; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.84.215 with SMTP id k23mr944791bkl.16.1288731612091; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.204.84.215 with SMTP id k23mr944790bkl.16.1288731612015; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:00:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-fx0-f47.google.com (mail-fx0-f47.google.com [209.85.161.47]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id w9si3397601bkz.4.2010.11.02.14.00.10; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:00:11 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.47 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.161.47; Received: by mail-fx0-f47.google.com with SMTP id 3so6226014fxm.20 for ; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:00:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.223.96.202 with SMTP id i10mr6007352fan.110.1288731603273; Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:00:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.117.10 with HTTP; Tue, 2 Nov 2010 13:58:36 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20101102040903.GA10493@alice.local> <4e1aec20-2d77-4473-a6e3-780700105315@v20g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> <924334.40683.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20101102191856.GE10792@alice.local> From: Oren Date: Tue, 2 Nov 2010 16:58:36 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: mi kakne lo bajra To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: get.oren@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of get.oren@gmail.com designates 209.85.161.47 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=get.oren@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf30433f9e6e398b0494183587 --20cf30433f9e6e398b0494183587 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 @Luke. Mm. Good question. No standoffishness taken. Obviously, this all says nothing about treatment of named entities and other pro-sumti. It may end up applied to cases of pronoun resolution, but let's first focus on whether this specification could even offer something consistently valid. You raise a good point. To extend your argument, not only would { lo gerku } must-be "animate" and even "animal," but specifically it would have to be "a dog/canine" for it to "make sense" in the same way as above. { lo mlatu cu gerku } just "doesn't make sense." At first I'm hesitant as to how such seemingly tautological restrictions should relate to seemingly non-trivial ones like { lo [se/te/ve] bajra }. Here's what I think would happen for {lo gerku} { lo gerku } must-be:dog/canine { lo gerku } can-act-as: animal, object, animate, agent, volitional I guess { lo gerku } is similar to other gismu such as { lo dacti } where any attempt to semantically specify it's sensical limits results in naming a class that may or may not span other words. For example, "canine" might be a tag assignable to things like { lo lorxu } and { lo labno }. Of course, the same spanning wouldn't hold true for { lo lorxu } or { lo labno }, which would have both met the end of a hierarchy of specificiation. So, it sounds like what we'd actually be describing is not just a mass of unrelated 'tags,' but a series of overlapping hierarchical taxonomies. Using this method, if a tag is itself a word, then all words it spans could inherit those tags. Thus, from { lo gerku }'s information above, we now know: { lo lorxu } must-be:dog/canine { lo lorxu } can-act-as: animal, object, animate, agent, volitional { lo labno } must-be:dog/canine { lo labno } can-act-as: animal, object, animate, agent, volitional The 'must-be' relations here are a different kind of necessity than I was using before, but it's still based on our 'common sense' or 'real world' knowledge that folks can immediately point out. For example, that { lo mudri bliku cu kelci gerku } doesn't make as much sense as { lo mudri bliku cu gerku se kelci } Note that certain tautological restrictions (like { lo labno } must-be a "wolf") won't actually be usefully spanning classes for other words (unlike "animal" and "canine," which both span at least several other words). If there is a "keyhole" so specific that no other "key" exists to fit in it's place, we can only expect that "sensical" sentences will fill that sumti-location with some sort of named entity or pronoun. Right? co'o mi'e korbi On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 15:38, Luke Bergen wrote: > My only question is, will we also be marking x1 of {gerku} as being an > animal? lo gerku are animals, lo se skari are colors, you ve skina movies, > citka food, pilno tools, djuno facts, and djica events. > > It is nonsensical to say {la tam cu gerku} if {tam} is a block of wood. In > my opinion, it is in the same class of absurdity to say {mi djica lo mudri > bliku}. Now, because people might get confused and think that x2 of djica > can be an object, we should mark that x2 of djica is an event/state. Using > that same reasoning, we should also mark x1 of gerku as being an animate > object (or even more specific, that it must be an animal). > > So where's the spreadsheet and can I add x1 of gerku to it? > > Sorry if I'm sounding stand-offish. Maybe I'm missing what the issue is. > Don't the gismu list's/jbovlaste say in the definitions of the gismu when > things are expected to be (events)/(ojbects)/(volitional entity)? There's > nothing in the grammar that requires them to be that, it's just absurd to > put anything else there in the same way that it is absurd to refer to my > mudri bliku as lo gerku. > > > On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 3:18 PM, .alyn.post. < > alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote: > >> That's roughly what I had in mind for it. >> >> Note that even though there are a few gismu and that universe is >> closed, lujvo will need some way to be marked with these classes >> as well. >> >> -Alan >> >> On Tue, Nov 02, 2010 at 02:14:06PM -0400, Oren wrote: >> > Re: "Again, the important thing is which individual places accept >> what >> > sorts of arguments. The gismu itself just relates those places." >> > >> > So then, the concept of my spreadsheet *DOES* contain useful and >> valid >> > information, but would only be complete if it were expanded to >> include all >> > the 'oblique' sumti places as well? >> > >> > Re:"Does it bother you that *{mi pinxe lo jubme} would also be >> considered >> > semantic nonsense, because tables aren't the sort of thing that one >> can >> > drink?" >> > >> > If things like "agent/object" are specified in these definitions, why >> > shouldn't all 'sensical' general classes like material states >> > ("liquid/solid") be included as well? This is in part why I was >> referring >> > to these 'classifiers' as 'tags' originally. As long as people can >> easily >> > point to a construction and say "according to this sumti's implied >> class >> > and that selbri's meaning, this makes no sense," I think that type of >> > judgement should have a clear litmus test. And there's nothing >> stopping >> > us. With a vocabulary of less than 1500 words, many of which fall >> into >> > regular sub-classes in the thesaurus, I see no reason why we >> shouldn't >> > have this resource. >> > >> > So, to expand the scope here, I'm proposing that each and every sumti >> > position in gismu definitions list explicit tags for baseline >> sensicality. >> > That is, for bajra: >> > >> > bajra: x1 runs on surface x2 using limbs x3 with gait x4 >> > >> > Now account for baseline sensicality: >> > >> > x1 must-be agent... >> > x2 must-be material... >> > x3 must-be material, must-be movable-part... >> > x4 must-be manner... >> > >> > Now let's envision that these clearly specified 'baseline sensicality >> > tags' for sumti positions are like 'keyhole definitions' that only >> these >> > explicit classes can fit. Now, each sumti position also gets any >> number of >> > 'key definitions' for what it can fit into, or what sumti places it >> can >> > sensically 'fill.' >> > >> > x1 can-act-as agent, can-act-as moving-thing, can-act-as athlete... >> > x2 can-act-as general-place, can-act-as surface... >> > x3 can-act-as body-part... >> > x4 can-act-as idea... >> > >> > Now, if we do this for every gismu, I imagine we'd end up with many >> > high-frequency tags like "agent" and "material," and several hundred >> less >> > frequent tags like "liquid" "body-part." Each of these tags would >> have a >> > list of sumti positions it requires, and a (probably much larger) >> list of >> > sumti positions that can "sensically" fit that semantic role. >> > This data/document would not only provide a richer (many-to-many) >> series >> > of 'categories' for vocabulary study lists, there are a series of new >> > applications this would allow. You could automatically gauge the >> degree of >> > 'figurative language' used in a text. You could automatically >> generate >> > sensical example sentences for given vocabulary (or even generate a >> > [1]minimal spanning sensible sentence for a set of words). You could >> even >> > develop a kind of auto-complete function for a lojban-specific >> > text-editor: as you begin to type a sumti in, a list of 'sensical' >> > suggestions could come up in a tooltip window. If we get this data, >> I'd >> > totally code that! >> > >> > But I want to make sure I'm understanding the nature of this data >> set. >> > Please let me know if I'm still making sense, and if I do, I'll come >> up >> > with technical specs for a web interface to make this data easy to >> gather >> > and manage. Maybe I'll use this as a way to learn to use github. >> > >> > co'o mi'e korbi >> > >> > On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 12:14, John E Clifford <[2] >> kali9putra@yahoo.com> >> > wrote: >> > > >> > > Well, xorxes has ideas about how Lojban *does* work, and, with >> minor >> > exceptions, >> > > he has got it right. So Lojban is his "other" language. Sorry you >> think >> > this >> > > discussion is bull-crap; it is trying to work out the ramifications >> of >> > Lojvan >> > > being a logical language, dealing with both the logical part and >> the >> > language >> > > part, and shooting for reasonable resolution where they appear to >> > conflict. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > ----- Original Message ---- >> > > From: Lindar <[3]lindarthebard@yahoo.com> >> > > To: lojban <[4]lojban@googlegroups.com> >> > > Sent: Tue, November 2, 2010 9:55:04 AM >> > > Subject: [lojban] Re: mi kakne lo bajra >> > > >> > > Oren, I answered your question some two or three times. >> > > >> > > >> > > Where x2 of broda asks for {nu} and x1 of brode asks for {nu}, {.i >> > > broda lo brode} is kosher, because lo brode already -is- an event. >> For >> > > all other cases, an abstractor is necessary. >> > > >> > > (barring all the other bullcrap/arguments going on right now) >> > > >> > > xorxes, since you have all these ideas about how Lojban should >> work, >> > > why don't you just make your -own- language and let it stand up to >> > > Lojban? >> > > >> > > -- >> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups >> > > "lojban" group. >> > > To post to this group, send email to [5]lojban@googlegroups.com. >> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > > [6]lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> > > For more options, visit this group at >> > > [7]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> > Groups "lojban" group. >> > > To post to this group, send email to [8]lojban@googlegroups.com. >> > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > [9]lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> > > For more options, visit this group at >> > [10]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > >> > >> > -- >> > Oren Robinson >> > (315) 569-2888 >> > 102 Morrison Ave >> > Somerville, MA 02144 >> > >> > -- >> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups >> > "lojban" group. >> > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> > For more options, visit this group at >> > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > >> > References >> > >> > Visible links >> > 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_spanning_tree >> > 2. mailto:kali9putra@yahoo.com >> > 3. mailto:lindarthebard@yahoo.com >> > 4. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com >> > 5. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com >> > 6. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> > 7. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en >> > 8. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com >> > 9. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> > 10. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en >> >> -- >> .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> >> > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- Oren Robinson (315) 569-2888 102 Morrison Ave Somerville, MA 02144 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --20cf30433f9e6e398b0494183587 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
@Luke.
Mm. Good question. No standoffishness taken= . =A0

Obviously, this all says nothing about treatment o= f named entities and other pro-sumti. It may end up applied to cases of pro= noun resolution, but let's first focus on whether this specification co= uld even offer something consistently valid.

You raise a good point. To extend your argument, not on= ly would { lo gerku } must-be "animate" and even "animal,&qu= ot; but specifically it would have to be "a dog/canine" for it to= "make sense" in the same way as above. { lo mlatu cu gerku } jus= t "doesn't make sense." At first I'm hesitant as to how s= uch seemingly tautological restrictions should relate to seemingly non-triv= ial ones like { lo [se/te/ve] bajra }.

Here's what I think would happen for {lo gerku}

{ lo gerku } must-be:dog/canine
{ lo gerku } can-act-a= s: animal, object, animate, agent, volitional =A0

I guess= { lo gerku } is similar to other gismu such as { lo dacti } where any atte= mpt to semantically specify it's sensical limits results in naming a cl= ass that may or may not span other words. For example, "canine" m= ight be a tag assignable to things like { lo lorxu } and { lo labno }. Of c= ourse, the same spanning wouldn't hold true for { lo lorxu } or { lo la= bno }, which would have both met the end of a hierarchy of specificiation.<= /div>

So, it sounds like what we'd actually be describing= is not just a mass of unrelated 'tags,' but a series of overlappin= g hierarchical taxonomies. Using this method, if a tag is itself a word, th= en all words it spans could inherit those tags. Thus, from { lo gerku }'= ;s information above, we now know:

{ lo lorxu } must-be:dog/canine
{ lo lorxu= } can-act-as: animal, object, animate, agent, volitional =A0
{ lo labno } must-be:dog/canine
{ lo labno } can-act-as: animal, = object, animate, agent, volitional =A0

The &= #39;must-be' relations here are a different kind of necessity than I wa= s using before, but it's still based on our 'common sense' or &= #39;real world' knowledge that folks can immediately point out.

For example, that=A0{ lo mudri bliku cu kelci gerku } doesn't make as = much sense as { lo mudri bliku cu gerku se kelci }

<= span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse;">Note t= hat certain tautological restrictions (like { lo labno } must-be a "wo= lf") won't actually be usefully spanning classes for other words (= unlike "animal" and "canine," which both span at least = several other words). If there is a "keyhole" so specific that no= other "key" exists to fit in it's place, we can only expect = that "sensical" sentences will fill that sumti-location with some= sort of named entity or pronoun. Right?

<= span class=3D"Apple-style-span" style=3D"border-collapse: collapse;">co'= ;o mi'e korbi

On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 15:38, = Luke Bergen <= lukeabergen@gmail.com> wrote:
My only question is, will we also be markin= g x1 of {gerku} as being an animal? =A0lo gerku are animals, lo se skari ar= e colors, you ve skina movies, citka food, pilno tools, djuno facts, and dj= ica events. =A0

It is nonsensical to say {la tam cu gerku} if {tam} is a block of wood. =A0= In my=A0opinion, it is in the same class of absurdity to say {mi djica lo m= udri bliku}. =A0Now, because people might get confused and think that x2 of= djica can be an object, we should mark that x2 of djica is an event/state.= =A0Using that same reasoning, we should also mark x1 of gerku as being an = animate object (or even more specific, that it must be an animal).

So where's the spreadsheet and can I add x1 of gerk= u to it?

Sorry if I'm sounding stand-offish. = =A0Maybe I'm missing what the issue is. Don't the gismu list's/= jbovlaste say in the definitions of the gismu when things are expected to b= e (events)/(ojbects)/(volitional entity)? =A0There's nothing in the gra= mmar that requires them to be that, it's just absurd to put anything el= se there in the same way that it is absurd to refer to my mudri bliku as lo= gerku.


On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 3:18 PM, .alyn.post. = <alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org> wrote:
That's roughly what I had in mind for it.

Note that even though there are a few gismu and that universe is
closed, lujvo will need some way to be marked with these classes
as well.

-Alan

On Tue, Nov 02, 2010 at 02:14:06PM -0400, Oren wrote:
> =A0 =A0Re: "Again, the important thing is which individual places= accept what
> =A0 =A0sorts of arguments. The gismu itself just relates those places.= "
>
> =A0 =A0So then, the concept of my spreadsheet *DOES* contain useful an= d valid
> =A0 =A0information, but would only be complete if it were expanded to = include all
> =A0 =A0the 'oblique' sumti places as well?
>
> =A0 =A0Re:"Does it bother you that *{mi pinxe lo jubme} would als= o be considered
> =A0 =A0semantic nonsense, because tables aren't the sort of thing = that one can
> =A0 =A0drink?"
>
> =A0 =A0If things like "agent/object" are specified in these = definitions, why
> =A0 =A0shouldn't all 'sensical' general classes like mater= ial states
> =A0 =A0("liquid/solid") be included as well? This is in part= why I was referring
> =A0 =A0to these 'classifiers' as 'tags' originally. As= long as people can easily
> =A0 =A0point to a construction and say "according to this sumti&#= 39;s implied class
> =A0 =A0and that selbri's meaning, this makes no sense," I thi= nk that type of
> =A0 =A0judgement should have a clear litmus test. And there's noth= ing stopping
> =A0 =A0us. With a vocabulary of less than 1500 words, many of which fa= ll into
> =A0 =A0regular sub-classes in the thesaurus, I see no reason why we sh= ouldn't
> =A0 =A0have this resource.
>
> =A0 =A0So, to expand the scope here, I'm proposing that each and e= very sumti
> =A0 =A0position in gismu definitions list explicit tags for baseline s= ensicality.
> =A0 =A0That is, for bajra:
>
> =A0 =A0bajra: x1 runs on surface x2 using limbs x3 with gait x4
>
> =A0 =A0Now account for baseline sensicality:
>
> =A0 =A0x1 must-be agent...
> =A0 =A0x2 must-be material...
> =A0 =A0x3 must-be material, must-be movable-part...
> =A0 =A0x4 must-be manner...
>
> =A0 =A0Now let's envision that these clearly specified 'baseli= ne sensicality
> =A0 =A0tags' for sumti positions are like 'keyhole definitions= ' that only these
> =A0 =A0explicit classes can fit. Now, each sumti position also gets an= y number of
> =A0 =A0'key definitions' for what it can fit into, or what sum= ti places it can
> =A0 =A0sensically 'fill.'
>
> =A0 =A0x1 can-act-as agent, can-act-as moving-thing, can-act-as athlet= e...
> =A0 =A0x2 can-act-as general-place, can-act-as surface...
> =A0 =A0x3 can-act-as body-part...
> =A0 =A0x4 can-act-as idea...
>
> =A0 =A0Now, if we do this for every gismu, I imagine we'd end up w= ith many
> =A0 =A0high-frequency tags like "agent" and "material,&= quot; and several hundred less
> =A0 =A0frequent tags like "liquid" "body-part." Ea= ch of these tags would have a
> =A0 =A0list of sumti positions it requires, and a (probably much large= r) list of
> =A0 =A0sumti positions that can "sensically" fit that semant= ic role.
> =A0 =A0This data/document would not only provide a richer (many-to-man= y) series
> =A0 =A0of 'categories' for vocabulary study lists, there are a= series of new
> =A0 =A0applications this would allow. You could automatically gauge th= e degree of
> =A0 =A0'figurative language' used in a text. You could automat= ically generate
> =A0 =A0sensical example sentences for given vocabulary (or even genera= te a
> =A0 =A0[1]minimal spanning sensible sentence for a set of = words). You could even
> =A0 =A0develop a kind of auto-complete function for a lojban-spec= ific
> =A0 =A0text-editor: as you begin to type a sumti in, a list of 'se= nsical'
> =A0 =A0suggestions could come up in a tooltip window. If we get this d= ata, I'd
> =A0 =A0totally code that!
>
> =A0 =A0But I want to make sure I'm understanding the nature of thi= s data set.
> =A0 =A0Please let me know if I'm still making sense, and if I do, = I'll come up
> =A0 =A0with technical specs for a web interface to make this data easy= to gather
> =A0 =A0and manage. Maybe I'll use this as a way to learn to use gi= thub.
>
> =A0 =A0co'o mi'e korbi
>
> =A0 =A0On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 12:14, John E Clifford <[2]kali9putra@yahoo.com<= /a>>
> =A0 =A0wrote:
> =A0 =A0>
> =A0 =A0> Well, xorxes has ideas about how Lojban *does* work, and, = with minor
> =A0 =A0exceptions,
> =A0 =A0> he has got it right. So Lojban is his "other" la= nguage. Sorry you think
> =A0 =A0this
> =A0 =A0> discussion is bull-crap; it is trying to work out the rami= fications of
> =A0 =A0Lojvan
> =A0 =A0> being a logical language, dealing with both the logical pa= rt and the
> =A0 =A0language
> =A0 =A0> part, and shooting for reasonable resolution where they ap= pear to
> =A0 =A0conflict.
> =A0 =A0>
> =A0 =A0>
> =A0 =A0>
> =A0 =A0>
> =A0 =A0> ----- Original Message ----
> =A0 =A0> From: Lindar <[3]lindarthebard@yahoo.com>
> =A0 =A0> To: lojban <[4]lojban@googlegroups.com>
> =A0 =A0> Sent: Tue, November 2, 2010 9:55:04 AM
> =A0 =A0> Subject: [lojban] Re: mi kakne lo bajra
> =A0 =A0>
> =A0 =A0> Oren, I answered your question some two or three times. > =A0 =A0>
> =A0 =A0>
> =A0 =A0> Where x2 of broda asks for {nu} and x1 of brode asks for {= nu}, {.i
> =A0 =A0> broda lo brode} is kosher, because lo brode already -is- a= n event. For
> =A0 =A0> all other cases, an abstractor is necessary.
> =A0 =A0>
> =A0 =A0> (barring all the other bullcrap/arguments going on right n= ow)
> =A0 =A0>
> =A0 =A0> xorxes, since you have all these ideas about how Lojban sh= ould work,
> =A0 =A0> why don't you just make your -own- language and let it= stand up to
> =A0 =A0> Lojban?
> =A0 =A0>
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> =A0 =A0> [7]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
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> =A0 =A0>
> =A0 =A0>
> =A0 =A0>
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> =A0 =A0[10]http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.=
> =A0 =A0>
>
> =A0 =A0--
> =A0 =A0Oren Robinson
> =A0 =A0(315) 569-2888
> =A0 =A0102 Morrison Ave
> =A0 =A0Somerville, MA 02144
>
> =A0 =A0--
> =A0 =A0You received this message because you are subscribed to the Goo= gle Groups
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> =A0 =A0lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
> =A0 =A0For more options, visit this group at
> =A0 =A0http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.
>
> References
>
> =A0 =A0Visible links
> =A0 =A01. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_spanning_tree=
> =A0 =A02. mailto:kali9putra@yahoo.com
> =A0 =A03. mailto:lindarthebard@yahoo.com
> =A0 =A04. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com
> =A0 =A05. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com
> =A0 =A06. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> =A0 =A07. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den
> =A0 =A08. mailto:lojban@googlegroups.com
> =A0 =A09. mailto:lojban%2Bunsubscribe@googlegroups.com
> =A0 10. http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den

--
.i ko djuno fi le do sevzi

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--
Oren Robinson
(315) 569-2888
102 Morrison Ave
Somerville, MA 02144

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