From lojban+bncCML0xpmUARDdzN3oBBoERuq_Uw@googlegroups.com Sun Dec 26 07:59:41 2010 Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PWt0S-0007wS-0P; Sun, 26 Dec 2010 07:59:40 -0800 Received: by pzk9 with SMTP id 9sf1095951pzk.16 for ; Sun, 26 Dec 2010 07:59:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=T3eG7v7a9Vex5uphbCqTQVHOdQ86Jflso2ppNkMr9pA=; b=tEaIbiPNj3zqu7JS4S6jZRZURQ8MTwUYRndwQUKIX5UclLzE3CcsA4ZzW2NJcmzPER Z8m9bN+W2A/9iax++23PPcGQOXjnXKC0V44E9xjlPqci4VF+Bp6ioBC6xuNzxXNdDlTN Bxw64j1e3rLGjgH/XiNhaCIbafDrbyFCKNVg0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from :to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=45a4IUWJNVRSmvM1nB4FgB+Xb2wYPcXMY1PUTBsvYAJbt+ni/wcCX5+s2jlX/Dc7Jv HZxP+4Aej3JU4Up0RTAYswQcMpugQkm+l2P0o1deyr1RaZaxDdff/S/TjBLNc7+EsNYr qbaVAiJhv4A12IQVK7m7Zx8qpzJWCCTwj+RqI= Received: by 10.143.47.4 with SMTP id z4mr559425wfj.25.1293379165965; Sun, 26 Dec 2010 07:59:25 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.2.41 with SMTP id 41ls12775844wfb.0.p; Sun, 26 Dec 2010 07:59:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.99.21 with SMTP id w21mr8600056wfb.14.1293379165178; Sun, 26 Dec 2010 07:59:25 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.99.21 with SMTP id w21mr8600055wfb.14.1293379165151; Sun, 26 Dec 2010 07:59:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pv0-f175.google.com (mail-pv0-f175.google.com [74.125.83.175]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id f13si11992384wfo.0.2010.12.26.07.59.24; Sun, 26 Dec 2010 07:59:24 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.175 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.175; Received: by pvd12 with SMTP id 12so1605192pvd.6 for ; Sun, 26 Dec 2010 07:59:24 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.131.7 with SMTP id e7mr9244979wfd.316.1293379164006; Sun, 26 Dec 2010 07:59:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.103.17 with HTTP; Sun, 26 Dec 2010 07:59:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2010 10:59:23 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: [lojban] Tanru automatically forming From: Ian Johnson To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.175 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd29cbca180c20498524d8a --000e0cd29cbca180c20498524d8a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I know this is vastly too fundamental to be changed at this stage of the language's development, but why do tanru automatically form? Presumably the more common a construction is, the fewer cmavo it should take to say it. (This isn't a direct correlation, though; for example, NU constructions are very common, but by their nature there is probably no way to avoid having some cmavo to deal with them.) And certainly {lo gerku cu klama} is more common than {lo gerku klama cu bajra}. Why wasn't it decided in the ancient (Loglan?) days to have tanru form only with a cmavo? To clarify, suppose the cmavo were {ja'ei}* for the default grouping ({ke} and friends would still work the same way without needing {ja'ei}). Then {lo gerku klama} would be "the dog goes" while {lo gerku ja'ei klama bajra} would be "the dog-kind-of-goer runs". Isn't this a bit more sensible than what is established now? *Certainly in an actual situation like this, this cmavo would be a CV, since it would be pretty common. I'm fairly sure there are no CVs to spare now, though, so it would've been confusing to use one. mu'o mi'e .latros. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --000e0cd29cbca180c20498524d8a Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I know this is vastly too fundamental to be changed at this stage of the la= nguage's development, but why do tanru automatically form? Presumably t= he more common a construction is, the fewer cmavo it should take to say it.= (This isn't a direct correlation, though; for example, NU construction= s are very common, but by their nature there is probably no way to avoid ha= ving some cmavo to deal with them.) And certainly {lo gerku cu klama} is mo= re common than {lo gerku klama cu bajra}. Why wasn't it decided in the = ancient (Loglan?) days to have tanru form only with a cmavo? To clarify, su= ppose the cmavo were {ja'ei}* for the default grouping ({ke} and friend= s would still work the same way without needing {ja'ei}). Then {lo gerk= u klama} would be "the dog goes" while {lo gerku ja'ei klama = bajra} would be "the dog-kind-of-goer runs". Isn't this a bit= more sensible than what is established now?

*Certainly in an actual situation like this, this cmavo would be a CV, = since it would be pretty common. I'm fairly sure there are no CVs to sp= are now, though, so it would've been confusing to use one.

mu= 9;o mi'e .latros.

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