From lojban+bncCMuAoImuBxDU-N7oBBoEwhuUtQ@googlegroups.com Sun Dec 26 14:06:26 2010 Received: from mail-fx0-f61.google.com ([209.85.161.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PWyjP-0003C8-9g; Sun, 26 Dec 2010 14:06:26 -0800 Received: by fxm10 with SMTP id 10sf2475023fxm.16 for ; Sun, 26 Dec 2010 14:06:16 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=YqeV7q+RD1xCCPvK+PWnEItjmlbP87zUOJopaO70UKY=; b=6ECM74oJ6FiHLwLQwE+H6LjYryHxQa2e93DjnQsgec7yjHQTbsS2zzaBKoOlFAgAqA YrCudwr/kMDZji0yhSsXkldMa1mZRqUHD5di35LLgAG9C614HgfYU3CYU2RbwXXe3vEF AEF2fpMErmFwbS2NlQgHREhMVMXbXH8duoBig= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=NjNguiGEUQ6EY7RfaegFOi8sPXw/VoMKRx30LDC3FwJfuQgGoa8qYVTqRvl4YCvZFc zTHqkRCYmHBLplfuTzXWXgJ4KHJMyJz6PoQ3XD8UJkZUs9ANF1JaEElD5XLeGz3nWDLI Xx9P0EWH4SXaevxeD66TdO9bi1YXB0DsCFEH0= Received: by 10.223.86.142 with SMTP id s14mr691586fal.35.1293401172554; Sun, 26 Dec 2010 14:06:12 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.204.32.79 with SMTP id b15ls4724850bkd.0.p; Sun, 26 Dec 2010 14:06:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.33.19 with SMTP id f19mr750558bkd.16.1293401171128; Sun, 26 Dec 2010 14:06:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.33.19 with SMTP id f19mr750557bkd.16.1293401171103; Sun, 26 Dec 2010 14:06:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-bw0-f42.google.com (mail-bw0-f42.google.com [209.85.214.42]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id j16si2436919bkd.2.2010.12.26.14.06.10; Sun, 26 Dec 2010 14:06:10 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jtorndorff@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.42 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.42; Received: by bwz13 with SMTP id 13so8734663bwz.29 for ; Sun, 26 Dec 2010 14:06:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.61.74 with SMTP id s10mr9923049bkh.91.1293401169930; Sun, 26 Dec 2010 14:06:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.204.56.20 with HTTP; Sun, 26 Dec 2010 14:06:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <782268.21580.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <782268.21580.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2010 17:06:09 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Tanru automatically forming From: Jameson Orndorff To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jtorndorff@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jtorndorff@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.42 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jtorndorff@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm sorry; I just can't see any substantive upside to making tanru non-forming by default. Even as much as I see people forming them all the time by accident (generally because they don't completely understand how terminators work.) I may be a bit biased, though, because I generally love using tanru. I use tons of them, because they often get the job done faster and with the same, easily implied meaning. For any given bridi, the only common place where you'll have to consciously mark against tanru creation is before the 'main' selbri, and that's easily solved with at worst a single terminator, or {cu} to avoid multiples. I use tanru within {lo ... ku} quite often and to have to mark that I'm creating tanru would absolutely slow my speech and add way too much verbosity. Nothing gained, plenty lost. As a brief aside - and please, no one take this as a a personal attack - this sort of proposal is the sort of thing that breathes of improper mastery of terminators. tanru became *far* less confusing and ominous to me once I learned them properly. mi'e .kribacr. mu'o -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.