From lojban+bncCML0xpmUARCz1OnoBBoEOEgRkA@googlegroups.com Tue Dec 28 14:52:53 2010 Received: from mail-px0-f189.google.com ([209.85.212.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PXiPO-0003xY-KP; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 14:52:53 -0800 Received: by pxi19 with SMTP id 19sf3920078pxi.16 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 14:52:40 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=lHln9suTZQXPwzI4NrrDYonduWG48yGvo+3X2CNqpx8=; b=XBKak7kQe+X/mnK9tPkORCul/FIxCfNVyjz38OMrhNj+9u40Se47qhiCWCyTqMXz+4 F+4kSyWC/DWBBE5cpGZooPC0FK3+TbDwCTMgEyZSC5B7IefbitjvhQpmwTOOHlr3CBvT UGHwfNp6lKRJddG0YaK6GEaCCKBaXG58fhOBI= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=v3cui6cOorjA8bQBUMcd9/ngdeFt1YyNymiBbV/Yttjh7K3xxJiZAWBernjmsn8DL3 dixwZsBNxx9elT/EzLRPWyN2LdUMyWlhsgnDoEf1jV5OKpLYAESd9b/EzZ1wmxDGLVot K28vx21b6bv4awW+gyLptyPoBTSlFVdvFbNXs= Received: by 10.142.150.10 with SMTP id x10mr713798wfd.21.1293576755093; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 14:52:35 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.121.31 with SMTP id t31ls14616888wfc.3.p; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 14:52:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.148.14 with SMTP id v14mr10637388wfd.5.1293576753963; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 14:52:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.148.14 with SMTP id v14mr10637387wfd.5.1293576753934; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 14:52:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pv0-f181.google.com (mail-pv0-f181.google.com [74.125.83.181]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id n6si14884649wfl.3.2010.12.28.14.52.32; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 14:52:32 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.181 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.83.181; Received: by pvg12 with SMTP id 12so2775698pvg.26 for ; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 14:52:32 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.171.17 with SMTP id t17mr11464969wfe.88.1293576752722; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 14:52:32 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.103.17 with HTTP; Tue, 28 Dec 2010 14:52:32 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <782268.21580.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2010 17:52:32 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Tanru automatically forming From: Ian Johnson To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 74.125.83.181 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd1876ad5f4070498804efd --000e0cd1876ad5f4070498804efd Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 "It won't be implemented" doesn't progress much towards answering my question, especially since my question was never a proposal. The arguments so far seem to be "tanru are more common than you think" and "the binding between seltau and tertau is tight enough that it makes logical sense for it to not need a cmavo". Any others? mu'o mi'e .latros. On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 6:12 AM, Lindar wrote: > > I'm sorry; I just can't see any substantive upside to making tanru > > non-forming by default. > > +1 > > > Even as much as I see people forming them all > > the time by accident (generally because they don't completely > > understand how terminators work.) > > +1 > > > I may be a bit biased, though, > > because I generally love using tanru. I use tons of them, because they > > often get the job done faster and with the same, easily implied > > meaning. > > +1 > > > For any given bridi, the only common place where you'll have > > to consciously mark against tanru creation is before the 'main' > > selbri, and that's easily solved with at worst a single terminator, or > > {cu} to avoid multiples. I use tanru within {lo ... ku} quite often > > and to have to mark that I'm creating tanru would absolutely slow my > > speech and add way too much verbosity. Nothing gained, plenty lost. > > +1 > > > As a brief aside - and please, no one take this as a a personal attack > > - this sort of proposal is the sort of thing that breathes of improper > > mastery of terminators. tanru became *far* less confusing and ominous > > to me once I learned them properly. > > +1 > > It's one of many nifty ideas that will never ever ever be implemented > in Lojban. Sorry. > > mi'e .lindar. mu'o > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --000e0cd1876ad5f4070498804efd Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "It won't be implemented" doesn't progress much towards a= nswering my question, especially since my question was never a proposal.
The arguments so far seem to be "tanru are more common than you = think" and "the binding between seltau and tertau is tight enough= that it makes logical sense for it to not need a cmavo". Any others?<= br>
mu'o mi'e .latros.

On Tue, De= c 28, 2010 at 6:12 AM, Lindar <lindarthebard@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I'm sorry; I just can't see any substantive = upside to making tanru
> non-forming by default.

+1

> Even as much as I see people forming them all
> the time by accident (generally because they don't completely
> understand how terminators work.)

+1

> I may be a bit biased, though,
> because I generally love using tanru. I use tons of them, because they=
> often get the job done faster and with the same, easily implied
> meaning.

+1

> For any given bridi, the only common place where you'll have
> to consciously mark against tanru creation is before the 'main'= ;
> selbri, and that's easily solved with at worst a single terminator= , or
> {cu} to avoid multiples. I use tanru within {lo ... ku} quite often > and to have to mark that I'm creating tanru would absolutely slow = my
> speech and add way too much verbosity. Nothing gained, plenty lost.
+1

> As a brief aside - and please, no one take this as a a personal attack=
> - this sort of proposal is the sort of thing that breathes of improper=
> mastery of terminators. tanru became *far* less confusing and ominous<= br> > to me once I learned them properly.

+1

It's one of many nifty ideas that will never ever ever be implemented in Lojban. Sorry.

mi'e .lindar. mu'o

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