From lojban+bncCL-Ey5qiChD4-dvnBBoEhRzLbA@googlegroups.com Wed Dec 01 17:57:26 2010 Received: from mail-gy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.160.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PNyQE-0007zK-Uw; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 17:57:26 -0800 Received: by gyb11 with SMTP id 11sf6304439gyb.16 for ; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 17:57:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=7T+puzPXqQISUb2evTENRyqEMs9G9g+++BMhJG3BeDI=; b=SN6p5c2QKsnf63WgbVVAsIbHQ2KVKUWtp5up4pSOyb+IJaPcq4bNKfjlV6uqxamK2x ZjOTTxI64d9Vs28AtbZzb/9GcsSX+Rk/83BtFvZjFegXNtoQkii2I9Bph4FmIqxOx0JG exnbjJNRZqk1Dfec0EEk0GVNrjMcnHCZoG37w= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=jaejqz/G399b+iyz3SFTXaFYrJP2jxBi05Y3EQ1uK2KiyCRk+TBdrI6m+P7Cjz7cZM HtocG5i50yx2rdnRsgFoAt4b+lyzeYJrUd5W+6bf8odbuTGlmiyeGXirCKW58rGAjFli WnrvSZfrdUBgZLoIwgEmWnqsiy1Fduz62XGiQ= Received: by 10.150.174.42 with SMTP id w42mr16246ybe.59.1291255032916; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 17:57:12 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.141.220 with SMTP id n28ls3013686ibu.0.p; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 17:57:11 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.159.132 with SMTP id j4mr1678152ibx.15.1291255030868; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 17:57:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.159.132 with SMTP id j4mr1678151ibx.15.1291255030852; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 17:57:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f170.google.com (mail-iw0-f170.google.com [209.85.214.170]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id m30si239318ibu.6.2010.12.01.17.57.09; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 17:57:09 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of craigbdaniel@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.170 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.170; Received: by mail-iw0-f170.google.com with SMTP id 36so823008iwn.1 for ; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 17:57:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.145.134 with SMTP id f6mr2776473icv.153.1291255029744; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 17:57:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.196.198 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Dec 2010 17:57:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <659354.26852.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <604115.16202.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <752705.36302.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <822423.65423.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <605319.19000.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <433664.89554.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <906301.34622.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <306693.13766.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <144450.19864.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <132939.86626.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <886986.39526.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <476795.46183.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <435142.54831.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <194237.46033.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 20:57:09 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation From: Craig Daniel To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: craigbdaniel@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of craigbdaniel@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.170 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=craigbdaniel@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 8:54 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 6:32 PM, Craig Daniel wrote: >> >> On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 7:31 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: >> > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 6:01 PM, John E Clifford >> > wrote: >> >> >> >> Why not, given that it is built on 'ie'? >> >> Gee, I hope someone can do better than xorxes. >> > >> > >> > Because of the bloody definition of the bloody word {pei}. >> > >> > UIdai is used to indicate another's UI-state, why do you have such a >> > problem >> > with UIpei, which is used to ask about it? >> >> UIdai is *not* used to indicate another's UI-state, but the speaker's >> UI-state and the fact that it is empathetic in nature. > > empathetic > > Showing empathy for /others/, and recognizing their feelings etc > > empathy (uncountable) > > the intellectual identification of the thoughts, feelings, or state of > /another person/ Yes, but .uidai represents empathetic happiness - a mood on the part of the speaker which arises from identifying with someone else's happiness. I can conceivably imagine this being something other than happiness - for instance, I can imagine expressing schadenfreude with ".ui.oidai" - but it would certainly be unusual. Dai, however, is still about the speaker's emotional state; in this, it differs from pei, which very definitely is not. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.