From lojban+bncCOjSjrXVGBCJotznBBoElw_gtA@googlegroups.com Wed Dec 01 19:23:03 2010 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PNzl6-0006TN-7r; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 19:23:03 -0800 Received: by yxn35 with SMTP id 35sf6356347yxn.16 for ; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 19:22:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=y/ChKj0BuO5oha/kcVnzH58qtwq3D2/LK417i5bQe2I=; b=IXDGiq1VadriL+jSyk5m4vQFUIMGz71jJC7enlA7w3kgaNUL46DYFPERki2au+8JZx JJ2A76kX5LS0jA23aO9e7SKyUmKRRvHAr79cLWSzM3WgcROCQtdnXpZRks2x+Kpg+zmG NKhGHhvtHcOu41pTnVmyEsTPrtvHFGBUsIEQs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=0FQUT3HIropoSmnWnXpvxFAStj/MwKmVUwCfQKFOnJg2CRVdmdlV6pfQ1wpEnKaUJT K0DznQbyTfWsgOE/po+6c9e8U3gHUzAx1Dry8POGxA6jeSdSYpiQSIFp2fUycaHSP8Jc BaOTrKQ9kGyRi6+HrLOQ/4Ga/WALBY1zGAF9M= Received: by 10.91.199.5 with SMTP id b5mr17042agq.14.1291260169968; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 19:22:49 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.76.165 with SMTP id c37ls3269899ibk.3.p; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 19:22:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.19.136 with SMTP id a8mr3252053ibb.19.1291260169400; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 19:22:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.19.136 with SMTP id a8mr3252051ibb.19.1291260169302; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 19:22:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f181.google.com (mail-iw0-f181.google.com [209.85.214.181]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id b32si8983ibq.1.2010.12.01.19.22.48; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 19:22:48 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.181 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.181; Received: by mail-iw0-f181.google.com with SMTP id 3so9313794iwn.12 for ; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 19:22:48 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.15.75 with SMTP id j11mr9790867iba.45.1291260168060; Wed, 01 Dec 2010 19:22:48 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.199.206 with HTTP; Wed, 1 Dec 2010 19:22:47 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <944795.22261.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <659354.26852.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <604115.16202.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <752705.36302.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <822423.65423.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <605319.19000.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <433664.89554.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <906301.34622.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <306693.13766.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <144450.19864.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <132939.86626.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <886986.39526.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <476795.46183.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <435142.54831.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <194237.46033.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <944795.22261.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 1 Dec 2010 22:22:47 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation From: Luke Bergen To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: lukeabergen@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of lukeabergen@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.181 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=lukeabergen@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221534d527a146da049664efee --00221534d527a146da049664efee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 I'm confused. Could you define precisely what makes something "logical". It seems like I keep hearing things of the form "you're trying to do X and that's not logical". But what exactly do you mean by that? If I use something other than a bridi to express a relationship, does that automatically mean that it's not logical? Do all relationships HAVE to be made of bridi? Who says? On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 10:14 PM, John E Clifford wrote: > I suspect he means 'UIda'ai' which was apparently devised just for the > purpose > given. But is illegitmate logically, without a whole mess of further > considerations. (see previous letter and my reply). > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Craig Daniel > To: lojban@googlegroups.com > Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 7:32:18 PM > Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation > > On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 7:31 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 6:01 PM, John E Clifford > > wrote: > >> > >> Why not, given that it is built on 'ie'? > >> Gee, I hope someone can do better than xorxes. > > > > > > Because of the bloody definition of the bloody word {pei}. > > > > UIdai is used to indicate another's UI-state, why do you have such a > problem > > with UIpei, which is used to ask about it? > > UIdai is *not* used to indicate another's UI-state, but the speaker's > UI-state and the fact that it is empathetic in nature. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --00221534d527a146da049664efee Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I'm confused. =A0Could you define precisely what makes something "= logical". =A0It seems like I keep hearing things of the form "you= 're trying to do X and that's not logical". =A0But what exactl= y do you mean by that? =A0If I use something other than a bridi to express = a relationship, does that automatically mean that it's not logical? =A0= Do all relationships HAVE to be made of bridi? =A0Who says?

On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 10:14 PM, John E Clif= ford <kali9put= ra@yahoo.com> wrote:
I suspect he means 'UIda'ai' which was apparently devised just = for the purpose
given. =A0But is illegitmate logically, without a whole mess of further
considerations. (see previous letter and my reply).



----- Original Message ----
From: Craig Daniel <craigbdani= el@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com<= br>
Sent: Wed, December 1, 2010 7:32:18 PM
Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation<= br>
On Wed, Dec 1, 2010 at 7:31 PM, Jon= athan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com&= gt; wrote:
> On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 6:01 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> Why not, given that it is built on 'ie'?
>> Gee, I hope someone can do better than xorxes.
>
>
> Because of the bloody definition of the bloody word {pei}.
>
> UIdai is used to indicate another's UI-state, why do you have such= a problem
> with UIpei, which is used to ask about it?

UIdai is *not* used to indicate another's UI-state, but the speaker'= ;s
UI-state and the fact that it is empathetic in nature.

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