From lojban+bncCIycn8S8DhD1p9_nBBoE-uvBJg@googlegroups.com Thu Dec 02 09:14:44 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1POCjv-0006nb-QG; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 09:14:44 -0800 Received: by qyk1 with SMTP id 1sf18201267qyk.16 for ; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 09:14:34 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=fljBofu4bm2gLk1BI0OiXoAsHjqMqHF/XF0o9gWprjQ=; b=WR11kWE11guYcFAPEUS82yVkxxXetkKBN0Wa+UciDjXaWMKLtZaZqj02hepfAN2gnb WU2icBqAnr3TT+ZKU4CwcOra+zD/en+yl1nsj5crOFqevt+ZtfZiDFt9weWwfzo8ydbK 7ot0O3JBFv6IuJ94iHFBouYgVodzVPTsbVeuU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=atSZSYJ1Q1w8s32nm7QjB2Z7V4aZHLDgFewVOneKofAO6SNowaHZs7YWAoIbLF0Uwv sbjTBPmWHZZQURc/Ks/3w227jLxzwrzu8Lb8hKhBYNbJvHeeecSNKM+OSezevxIK8y42 x5pWYS2IdKK9/yrvkO4MVSjkwGLxJIxC9t2A0= Received: by 10.229.130.158 with SMTP id t30mr62797qcs.1.1291310069467; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 09:14:29 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.56.161 with SMTP id y33ls3020199qcg.1.p; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 09:14:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.86.74 with SMTP id r10mr44646qcl.12.1291310068756; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 09:14:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.86.74 with SMTP id r10mr44645qcl.12.1291310068719; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 09:14:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vw0-f44.google.com (mail-vw0-f44.google.com [209.85.212.44]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id t18si174054qcs.0.2010.12.02.09.14.27; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 09:14:27 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.44 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.212.44; Received: by vws7 with SMTP id 7so3380428vws.31 for ; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 09:14:27 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.184.204 with SMTP id cl12mr226310qcb.228.1291310067502; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 09:14:27 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.219.14 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Dec 2010 09:14:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <547f2fd5-c8a4-4dec-acee-97412386bf83@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 12:14:27 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Question about apparent inconsistency with "nixli". From: Michael Turniansky To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: mturniansky@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of mturniansky@gmail.com designates 209.85.212.44 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=mturniansky@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Tue, Nov 30, 2010 at 12:16 PM, Pan Mistwood wrote: > You know, I had my suspicion these were generated using some > algorithm. I have to admit that while I'm still intrigued by Lojban's > syntax, I'm less thrilled about this particular aspect of the > language. Don't get me wrong; I suppose I can understand the reasoning > behind trying to generate words in that way seeing as Lojban aims at > being an international auxiliary language. Still, my interest in the > syntax will keep me encouraged to learn the language, despite several > words I'd propose for a change if I was in charge. Thank you for your > feedback! > About 18 years ago, during the many many many many (where was I? Oh yes) nights sitting in the dark in a rocking chair, trying to get my crying baby to sleep (and during the 11 years after, with his 4 siblings), I crafted the hypothetical language "Langun", which was basically identical to Loglan (I hadn't yet heard of lojban, but I had learned Loglan in the mid 70s) in its grammar and "little words" (called "cmavo" in lojban), but whose primitives ("gismu" in lojban) were derived from the four languages I was at least semi-fluent in -- English, Yiddish, Hebrew and Spanish, all being given equal weighting (later I tried also adding in ASL (using ASCII-Stokoe notation), but it changed only a single vocabulary word, and lowered the "recognition scores" for all the words, so I dropped it). Anyhow, the six primary sanguinous familial relationships -- mother, father, sister, brother, daughter, son -- ended up being MATRA, FATRA, SATRA, BATRA, XATRA [1] and BINSO respectively. Now, admittedly, there were many other words that scored identically (the side-effect of equal weighting), so I was influenced in no small degree to choose those alternatives that fit the pattern, but there was no way I could lever a word for "son" into it. *shrug* (As long as I'm hijacking this thread for Langun, a few more interesting (?) factoids about it: * The word for queen is KINGA, but the word for king is MELKI * The word DATKA means exactly the same as it does in lojban, the only Langun word which has this property * The word KATSO has the highest recognition score. You guess what it means. (This was also the only word that changed when I tried adding in ASL -- to GATSO) * The vocabulary was never considered "finished", as it was just an exercise to do in the dark, and my command of three of the base languages was limited, such that I would often be able to think of how to say word X in say, two of them, but not the third (which one varied depending on the word in question), which I would sometimes look up later, after putting the kid in his crib, but sometimes not. All told, there was, I think about 125 words crafted. ) --gejyspa [1] Yes, I did have X, despite Loglan not having it when I learned it. As 3 of my four base languages had the sound, I thought it necessary. Plus I had heard anecdotally through my brother that Loglan had added X for the sound at some point in the past. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.