From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRD6wd_nBBoEP6BKUQ@googlegroups.com Thu Dec 02 10:10:18 2010 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PODbh-0001pH-Hp; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 10:10:18 -0800 Received: by qyk1 with SMTP id 1sf18301832qyk.16 for ; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 10:10:07 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=lnwCHVBHfT+I0k/C//3Qvcofp31yZy9j8F7V/6BF0lk=; b=FxYLWTSk4k4ybmcNjuFcGnlXAUb3caOfbV0S3LIdj1Uiwy8ID8XUhdJSD/xlrdGjPb jINF7QfNhf2zvUH4f8sTp8lbLcusYkH6flV9vUk8hiUCBvjKsGmquDXKw/qLyqNJJPQG wEExk5AwZ3VdxKShZTxJzdvSIauF+jm+UH6Y0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=U/39Q6o2nrNhhNkKDWnCp8btoVdeAOBQ5E3e+iGcH46u84CMqkGObK1BMtR4xn+lS5 Ccwcx0Qd9Y/R0tXgj5YBnSnyUOWGwaRupbZKmCJy1Evk30dZCCbbcLB9Bhnb68WBR/Bt 5gsKh4eVJv7eBdT66lLshZw7KGHKDwgt6hkNI= Received: by 10.224.11.73 with SMTP id s9mr32615qas.20.1291313402995; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 10:10:02 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.182.72 with SMTP id cb8ls1631211qab.5.p; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 10:10:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.224.2.209 with SMTP id 17mr46965qak.19.1291313402413; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 10:10:02 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.224.2.209 with SMTP id 17mr46964qak.19.1291313402307; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 10:10:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qw0-f45.google.com (mail-qw0-f45.google.com [209.85.216.45]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 3si185262qci.6.2010.12.02.10.10.01; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 10:10:01 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.45 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.45; Received: by mail-qw0-f45.google.com with SMTP id 7so3256334qwd.32 for ; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 10:10:01 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.45.145 with SMTP id e17mr306991qaf.96.1291313401059; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 10:10:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.83.205 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Dec 2010 10:10:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <659354.26852.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <604115.16202.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <752705.36302.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <822423.65423.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <605319.19000.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <433664.89554.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <906301.34622.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <306693.13766.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <144450.19864.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <132939.86626.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <886986.39526.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <476795.46183.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <435142.54831.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <194237.46033.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <944795.22261.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 15:10:00 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.45 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 1:07 AM, Craig Daniel wrote: > > John Clifford's argument (with which I basically am in agreement) is > that, to be in keeping with the stated design principles underlying > Lojban (and inherited from and in this instance I believe more > strongly present in Loglan), non-logical structures cannot be used to > express propositions. And I think most of us agree with that. (Although his suggestion that "ie" would be a natural response to "xu do tugni" still has me somewhat baffled.) > However, I can see no easy way to define "da'ai" such that it does not > contain anything propositional, What is "da'ai"? If you mean "da'oi", which is just like "dai" only it allows you to also indicate who you're empathizing with, I don't see anything propositional in it. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.