From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhDD9uDnBBoEsGF1Kg@googlegroups.com Thu Dec 02 16:35:32 2010 Received: from mail-gx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.161.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1POJcT-0000yP-B6; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 16:35:32 -0800 Received: by gxk19 with SMTP id 19sf7244343gxk.16 for ; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 16:35:19 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=pgLesF/9zfc9Ge88nsi2D813r67/zLwCYylNzzxCuoI=; b=J1RyL+FMMXPP21rnB9SSAR38E0PNAdFkSLrDoy4A+hHIbieQYod6HwuMcPU26PVPej NlqaQ9FES9RXVR0nYi15UPmL5ZM5fRH1hTvx8VPZZkWZ9AMdNbVa6k4yIC6cuWS6OIVS S7zRlHvORo3c+i/WrAijwXoRYqQOlNpkJoyoU= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=QlFC0DMSs0xPWf0MJlaEVPB8bGNBmfU58s1G0a8UmnAzkxz2fqYCmyXHSGK9cv8M5v l66NaxMFZdxtKQzAYwfdv18tiGU+/72ONQYgJlSn3Kcxjruu2FymUhiRci4lbI0FMA0m 6TDJVJs69wplLcg62x+e1PWl0NMIkKOWuWT0k= Received: by 10.91.69.8 with SMTP id w8mr110244agk.17.1291336515665; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 16:35:15 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.141.220 with SMTP id n28ls3482416ibu.0.p; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 16:35:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.19.202 with SMTP id c10mr382294ibb.12.1291336514587; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 16:35:14 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.19.202 with SMTP id c10mr382293ibb.12.1291336514526; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 16:35:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iw0-f177.google.com (mail-iw0-f177.google.com [209.85.214.177]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id m30si414352ibu.6.2010.12.02.16.35.13; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 16:35:13 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.177 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.214.177; Received: by mail-iw0-f177.google.com with SMTP id 6so1864233iwn.8 for ; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 16:35:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.192.73 with SMTP id dp9mr1010416ibb.72.1291336513381; Thu, 02 Dec 2010 16:35:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.206.146 with HTTP; Thu, 2 Dec 2010 16:35:13 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <515525.3316.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <659354.26852.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <604115.16202.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <752705.36302.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <822423.65423.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <605319.19000.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <433664.89554.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <906301.34622.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <306693.13766.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <164975.71420.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <575924.12596.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <577940.60375.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <638130.69866.qm@web81308.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <685026.21857.qm@web81307.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <515525.3316.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2010 17:35:13 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.214.177 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016367d67402a64ff049676b67e --0016367d67402a64ff049676b67e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable CLL, Ch.13,S.3: 'Attitudinals are the part of Lojban most distant from the ``logical language'' aspect.' On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 3:56 PM, John E Clifford wrote= : > OK, you can think of it that way. I see it as a request for information > about > your emotional (etc) state and the response a reply say "My emotional sta= te > is > ,,," The point is that I can translate the exchange automatically from t= he > apparently expressive form to the propositional, so it doesn't bother me, > except > for the small aesthetic issue. I suppose, if anyone was going to work th= e > interrelations between Lojban and Logic, these exchanges might be a > problem, > since early steps of such a process might well be shaving off or moving > into > pragmatics the discursives of various sorts and so a little propositional > information might be lost. But that ain't gonna happen, so we can go on > using > the expressions despite the different interpretation. Oh, there is the > false/insincere issue but that has little practical effect. > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Jorge Llamb=EDas > To: lojban@googlegroups.com > Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 4:31:44 PM > Subject: Re: [lojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversatio= n > > On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 5:16 PM, John E Clifford > wrote: > > The bridiness of 'pei' and its answer is not > > a sticking point but a place where I am still uncomfortable, because it > looks > > like something it is not (of course, you may think it is what it looks > like > and > > I don't. > > I don't see any bridiness in "pei". It has nothing to do with any > propositions. It just indicates a request from speaker to listener to > express themself in a certain scale. No bridis need be involved on the > part of either participant. > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu d= o zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --0016367d67402a64ff049676b67e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
CLL, Ch.13,S.3:
'Attitudinals are the part of Lojban most distant from the ``logic= al language'' aspect.'

On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 3:56 PM, John E Clifford = <kali9putra@ya= hoo.com> wrote:
OK, you can think of it that way= . =A0I see it as a request for information about
your emotional (etc) st= ate and the response a reply say "My emotional state is
,,," =A0The point is that I can translate the exchange automatically f= rom the
apparently expressive form to the propositional, so it doesn'= ;t bother me, except
for the small aesthetic issue. =A0I suppose, if any= one was going to work the
interrelations between Lojban and Logic, these exchanges might be a problem= ,
since early steps of such a process might well be shaving off or movin= g into
pragmatics the discursives of various sorts and so a little propo= sitional
information might be lost. =A0But that ain't gonna happen, so we can go= on using
the expressions despite the different interpretation. =A0Oh, t= here is the
false/insincere issue but that has little practical effect.<= br>




----- Original Message ----
From: Jorg= e Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.c= om>
To: lojban@googleg= roups.com
Sent: Thu, December 2, 2010 4:31:44 PM
Subject: Re: [l= ojban] Time for the perenial other-centric-.ui conversation

On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 5:16 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
&= gt; The bridiness of 'pei' and its answer is not
> a sticking= point but a place where I am still uncomfortable, because it looks
> like something it is not (of course, you may think it is what it looks= like
and
> I don't.

I don't see any bridiness in &= quot;pei". It has nothing to do with any
propositions. It just indi= cates a request from speaker to listener to
express themself in a certain scale. No bridis need be involved on the
p= art of either participant.

mu'o mi'e xorxes

--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsu= bscribe from this group, send email to
lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/lo= jban?hl=3Den.




--
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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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=
--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe l= o pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Si= de! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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