From lojban+bncCMuVt8jMERD_j-XnBBoE1V-tkw@googlegroups.com Fri Dec 03 11:42:06 2010 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PObW5-0002uO-N2; Fri, 03 Dec 2010 11:42:06 -0800 Received: by gwj17 with SMTP id 17sf5025053gwj.16 for ; Fri, 03 Dec 2010 11:41:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received :mime-version:received:received:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references :user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=xMk3NeOy26KoCIMWE1swOEK7RyxmVAVvdgAUeN7nPps=; b=O7M9ZaaRoXaKnyt+Y5HdfAcvLrEcpCa3yrTBYn/clGA7irOPP+gHnRvlMbvqa4wHNm NJTrgtGpiYdmw2IwpYrhVRqliF6/THCQdZ/HGUyuUUxYFIRAB3EJZdTIKrcxKp6WbIet GONTJzUiYVH/UthOOSYlpr6TyTu0Iaq/BKgmc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references :user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=A4GiBwlfrDZGOZo61JPCKFK02GXVs1F+1TsQJFApjTgcOc0b0m9XahUCFdl6E1gWvS u6jdB/gDFyEOIBZFcD/z+Fnm4IUtdv8dvnJjxXDsPidhywMKGduySyS42vJtbagi+zZx ISOU+Cl3zMrYchOY2JFIlWSd4OUwRRouNUYi4= Received: by 10.151.63.32 with SMTP id q32mr273004ybk.24.1291405311623; Fri, 03 Dec 2010 11:41:51 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.249.20 with SMTP id w20ls5929335ybh.6.p; Fri, 03 Dec 2010 11:41:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.150.139.8 with SMTP id m8mr550598ybd.57.1291405310845; Fri, 03 Dec 2010 11:41:50 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.101.70.3 with SMTP id x3mr76920ank.27.1291396088759; Fri, 03 Dec 2010 09:08:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by w2g2000yqb.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Fri, 3 Dec 2010 09:08:08 -0800 (PST) Date: Fri, 3 Dec 2010 09:08:08 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-IP: 89.232.124.106 References: <547f2fd5-c8a4-4dec-acee-97412386bf83@f20g2000prn.googlegroups.com> <8e8d61ff-55bf-40ce-8785-eb9368e6d81a@u3g2000vbj.googlegroups.com> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.12) Gecko/20101028 Firefox/3.6.12 (Palemoon/3.6.12),gzip(gfe) Message-ID: <993888bf-9041-49cf-89a1-efc410592a6f@w2g2000yqb.googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: Question about apparent inconsistency with "nixli". From: Taspie To: lojban X-Original-Sender: arcady.balandin@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So were gismu chosen to facilitate their memorizing ? If so then this double concept (either use lujvo or their gismu synonyms) is wonderful indeed. No language as far as I know allows such freedom to choose between logic and naturalness. Why lojban is called "logical language for computers" ? It's for live people as well. On Dec 3, 7:52=A0pm, Luke Bergen wrote: > There's a whole lot of overlap in the gismu. =A0Why need black if you can= just > say {tolblabi}? > > I seem to remember hearing at one point that the gismu were selected base= d > on how useful the idea is to have, and not necessarily to get the best > coverage of semantic space. =A0We have like 4 words for "say" that all ha= ve > subtle distinctions in their meanings, but there is no gismu for cactus. > =A0The choice in what concepts should be gismu was selected based on how = often > it'd be used, not how well it covers the semantic space. =A0Which is why = it > always confused the hell out of me that there wasn't originally a gismu f= or > "old". > > On Fri, Dec 3, 2010 at 11:27 AM, najrut wrote: > > It would be impossible to create absolute symmetry in root words. > > That's the way modern Esperanto tries to work (doktorino means female > > doctor and doktoric^o means male doctor, but in numerous other cases > > Esperanto is not logical at all). > > But I think it's possible to eliminate nixli and nanla at all. > > Aren't "fetyve'a" (fetsi zei verba) and "nakyve'a" (nakni zei verba) > > synonyms of those words ? > > > Then there can be a simple table. > > > fetyve'a =A0 =A0=3D nixli =A0 =A0 =A0 =3D girl > > nakyve'a =A0=3D nakla =A0 =A0 =3D boy > > fetytunba =3D mensi =A0 =A0=3D sister > > naktunba =3D bruna =A0 =A0=3D brother > > fetre'a =A0 =A0 =A0=3D ninmu =A0 =3D woman > > nakre'a =A0 =A0=3D nanmu =A0=3D man > > > Quite easy to remember, isn't it ? > > > On Nov 30, 3:18 pm, Pan Mistwood wrote: > > > Back when I first dove into learning Lojban, I noticed an apparent > > > inconsistency with four gismu. And as far as I can tell, there's no > > > reason for it, but I could be mistaken. So, after much > > > procrastination, I'm asking about it here. (And as far as I could fin= d > > > with Google Web search and a search within this group, it hasn't been > > > brought up before, which is rather surprising to me.) > > > > The gismu "nanmu" virtually means the English "man" or, more > > > generally, "male humanoid". The gismu "ninmu" virtually means the > > > English "woman" or "female humanoid". The gismu "nanla" virtually > > > means the English "boy". Now, I understand that they are not preferre= d > > > over the gismu "verba", "remna", and "prenu", but they do exist and > > > are recognised as Lojbanic gismu. > > > > From those gismu, I can see a pattern. "nanmu" and "nanla" share "na-= " > > > while "nanla" and "nanmu" share "-mu". Following this pattern, the > > > gismu virtually meaning the English "girl" would be "ninla"; "ni-" as > > > in "ninmu" and "-la" as in "nanla". However, the gismu is actually > > > "nixli". My question: as "ninla" is valid gismu syntax, is consistent > > > with "nanmu", "nanla", and "ninmu", and is not already used to mean > > > something else, why is "nixli" used instead? > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Grou= ps > > "lojban" group. > > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > > . > > For more options, visit this group at > >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.