From lojban+bncCJ2UzZHuDRD18OrnBBoEsVmEaA@googlegroups.com Sat Dec 04 13:54:12 2010 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PP03U-0002db-6P; Sat, 04 Dec 2010 13:54:12 -0800 Received: by wwb17 with SMTP id 17sf6670174wwb.16 for ; Sat, 04 Dec 2010 13:54:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=NAQhhpIWtL1lfzPDxVOQo5tfjsZVhU/V7kXk7v3ilL0=; b=EBLDVrH1QY8MwJvjwWU6jeQr5A9Z8h4IpcvJijO0pQQf8gTXXmEAiIthH/yuV2h5C5 ebuMynoTJxO3Y2/3FOWzuCSo1nwYAPa7xdrlxqmpfKv30hq6v29C3mLcWYSfdXtAttnG Wq4p/JDQB7fNZRIf3ANC0GBZCRUovOtBUBP28= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=baU6lSmxuHPlsK16ytee4S8w2iBcy2eNVKRWizTnZ6t2YkyRRJJXvx9FyN/vDdOm32 c6QQDn75OCq49Xgles3BAW5b5shszT615CmxK9PekbXiiHl98SeOJoE3sNdCF/tjdmQV sBmcF6nAjPMRMhLYDQZFQFEeNDikUGcJKdhkA= Received: by 10.216.187.139 with SMTP id y11mr106988wem.20.1291499637222; Sat, 04 Dec 2010 13:53:57 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.6.216 with SMTP id a24ls2982992wba.2.p; Sat, 04 Dec 2010 13:53:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.68.148 with SMTP id v20mr157276wbi.19.1291499636089; Sat, 04 Dec 2010 13:53:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.68.148 with SMTP id v20mr157275wbi.19.1291499636062; Sat, 04 Dec 2010 13:53:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wy0-f170.google.com (mail-wy0-f170.google.com [74.125.82.170]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id h9si442157wbe.4.2010.12.04.13.53.55; Sat, 04 Dec 2010 13:53:55 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.170 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.170; Received: by wyb39 with SMTP id 39so3525632wyb.15 for ; Sat, 04 Dec 2010 13:53:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.227.156.21 with SMTP id u21mr3746858wbw.9.1291499634809; Sat, 04 Dec 2010 13:53:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.39.139 with HTTP; Sat, 4 Dec 2010 13:53:54 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Sat, 4 Dec 2010 18:53:54 -0300 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] na'e vs no'e/to'e From: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jorge_Llamb=EDas?= To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: jjllambias@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of jjllambias@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.170 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=jjllambias@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Sat, Dec 4, 2010 at 1:15 PM, tijlan wrote: > > It seems to me that "na'e blabi" means either "no'e blabi" or "to'e blabi". > "na'e" doesn't seem to have a unique explicit meaning other than being > ambiguous about the no'e/to'e distinction. That's like saying that "danlu" is ambiguous about the mlatu/gerku distinction. It is not ambiguous just because it covers both. > If not the latter (i.e. the ambiguity of "na'e" is useful), why is it that > "na'e" has no explicit attitudinal equivalent? You might be interested in reading this reform proposal by lojbab from many many years ago, and a couple of reactions to it: http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/96534721bc2b3131/ecc1a14eaef16b0f >"UInai" (opposite negation) > corresponds to "to'e SELBRI", not "na'e SELBRI" (e.g. "uinai" means "to'e > gleki", not "na'e gleki"), and "UIru'e" (weak affirmation) corresponds to > "je'aru'e SELBRI", not "na'e SELBRI" (e.g. "uiru'e" means "je'aru'e gleki", > not "na'e gleki"). UIja'ainai might work, if construed as UI(ja'ainai) and not as (UIja'ai)nai. mu'o mi'e xorxes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.