From lojban+bncCL-Ey5qiChCVy_7nBBoEf-lr4g@googlegroups.com Wed Dec 08 07:35:04 2010 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PQM2h-0005r8-Ta; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 07:35:04 -0800 Received: by ywh1 with SMTP id 1sf1133392ywh.16 for ; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 07:34:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=e6GbpWSqvwxPuxILFaSTjLlycRy4HmgHosqQsP8B34c=; b=xMupXzTFd5b/iwNTFYtVxud88VITm298/jHaUeOro9a9/QkutCzohneILFQPV3fNWh +mJJbg9rjOFiQZq4fUBYwWECLq/9VDRvYvit5ObSiwda14hcAvJlGgXZWkjzX77nNkaM feQbH0IfYgMnJBmOurb2BxluxpmE7Dau5pZsw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=IIJ0JYtb7cytvCJTRUJxBSr3SjNrmWqxI1++XbrMC2z9kv40EK8Zmt+DMZDg1ou9AK bysaBj2FLKVs7GkgQj0QMsrsAd0yTU4zdB7I8PBt/pmpVK31caKa8hAtHCf3c/JIAMDC YA7zs/t+Pz1f8vNm2X75p8Gd2aZTWZwNOnyC8= Received: by 10.100.135.4 with SMTP id i4mr273271and.75.1291822485716; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 07:34:45 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.100.150.20 with SMTP id x20ls184976and.4.p; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 07:34:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.154.11 with SMTP id b11mr1495336ane.10.1291822485203; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 07:34:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.154.11 with SMTP id b11mr1495335ane.10.1291822485188; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 07:34:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yw0-f49.google.com (mail-yw0-f49.google.com [209.85.213.49]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id c30si142483anc.9.2010.12.08.07.34.44; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 07:34:44 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of craigbdaniel@gmail.com designates 209.85.213.49 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.213.49; Received: by mail-yw0-f49.google.com with SMTP id 7so702480ywf.8 for ; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 07:34:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.42.170.195 with SMTP id g3mr134028icz.153.1291822483979; Wed, 08 Dec 2010 07:34:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.42.196.198 with HTTP; Wed, 8 Dec 2010 07:34:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Wed, 8 Dec 2010 10:34:43 -0500 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lojban] conditional and hypotetical sentences From: Craig Daniel To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: craigbdaniel@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of craigbdaniel@gmail.com designates 209.85.213.49 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=craigbdaniel@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 2010/12/8 Jorge Llamb=EDas : > On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 6:40 AM, Remo Dentato wrote: >> After having read CLL 14 many times, I'm still very confused on Lojban >> connectives. >> >> Specifically I don't get how I can consistenly translate hypotetical >> and conditional sentences. > > The first thing you need to do is forget about associating "if" with > connectives. In English, "if" is a subordinating conjunction, not a > coordinating conjunction, so you should not expect it to be translated > with a connective anyway. (There is a marginal use of "if" that can be > sort of reproduced with a connective, but that's a marginal use of > "if", not its main use, and you should not start with that.) Right, the logical if and the idiomatic if are not the same. ganai... gi... is very much the former, and is not a useful way to talk about hypotheticals - or most other conditionals. >> For example: >> "If I had wings, I could fly" > > =A0 =A0va'o lo nu da'i mi se nalci kei mi kakne lo nu vofli Some people favor "bai" over "va'o", but always with the understanding that "bai" implies the having of wings to directly cause the flying ability. AFAICT, the CLL doesn't have an answer here and both of those are words originally intended for other uses that got repurposed because there was a gaping hole that they seem to fit quite nicely. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.