From lojban+bncCK7Yk5CUCxCl1JXpBBoE69ymhg@googlegroups.com Wed Jan 05 23:07:32 2011 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PajwW-00024S-Ep; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 23:07:32 -0800 Received: by qwd6 with SMTP id 6sf54182644qwd.16 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 23:07:22 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=MJ0FrgDvOY55nRdXmwBNdvgGp7T+QbtxC7WWcnvWoAY=; b=SbHb7hSChgXtbQHPRSaaeS9lBOUdsvAgIqKtMLZ8WzUu4gMpWV5Wk9TH8ORdyhvUzE cT0nPwiLGL2BHoDEWN/FE+UgPA46rOYQzZW8a118YQCJvlp2W0+GIdKX1VA7WfG7DBys pkBpZBD4K/aIoz9ZG/K6G7lVZxesb5AwyxBGQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=fKYxBouovAzvRQ7b4Js2ufztdqAxeozCq6mKgDdWOfcTfnQYdCb3vS7dT3y9DslHyd yShg6pd3iLBVGtmjKUmVKeok3AcCqtqz3iCk+tHrap4XsHBl0VCJW4OVRtBeTZT0y9du G9tNp27rpShINEAquBsURy+Q1UA4MFtU4Lv0Q= Received: by 10.224.54.135 with SMTP id q7mr298649qag.3.1294297637823; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 23:07:17 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.197.8 with SMTP id ei8ls4063888qcb.1.p; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 23:07:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.136.199 with SMTP id s7mr2522160qct.22.1294297637306; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 23:07:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.136.199 with SMTP id s7mr2522159qct.22.1294297637280; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 23:07:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qw0-f53.google.com (mail-qw0-f53.google.com [209.85.216.53]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id 19si4462205qci.1.2011.01.05.23.07.16; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 23:07:16 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.53 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.53; Received: by qwe5 with SMTP id 5so19971008qwe.40 for ; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 23:07:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.250.130 with SMTP id mo2mr769359qcb.163.1294297635391; Wed, 05 Jan 2011 23:07:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.227.73 with HTTP; Wed, 5 Jan 2011 23:07:15 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 08:07:15 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Lojbanistan Hadron Collider (was Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language)) From: Remo Dentato To: "lojban@googlegroups.com" X-Original-Sender: rdentato@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of rdentato@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.53 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rdentato@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Great answer! I was sure it would have been entertaining! :) On Thursday, January 6, 2011, purpleposeidon wro= te: > On 1/5/11, Remo Dentato wrote: >> I'm not against exploring how much {si} will make the universe collapse = in a >> black hole. > > Neither am I! > > =3D=3DBEGIN TL;DR=3D=3D > > It would likely take a few {si}'s to erase an event -- events are most > likely in the form of something like {.i xyxi pa darxi xyxi re} (xy. > refers to all particles, so xy.xiny. refers to the nth particle). In > this case, the number of words it takes to refer to a particular > particle depends on the total number of particles in the universe. > Specifically, the formula is 2 + (interacting particles)*(particle > reference word count) > > (Also possible is that, instead of using an index for all particles, > there is a description, perhaps something like {le kantu be la xunre > je cizra}. In this case, 7 words. There also might be something like > the coordinates on the grid on WP:Standard_Model . In which case, we'd > get {le kantu be li pa .e li re}, for 8. As a final of many > possibilities, I offer that each particle type has a name, in which > case 2 words. (Tho this brings up the "Toyata" problem; I do not > recall what the answer for that is.)) > > Returning to the question of how many words it takes to refer to an > index particle, let N be the number of atoms in the universe, which > is, per WolframAlpha, 10^80 . WP:Chemical_Abundance tells me that the > universe is about 3/4 hydrogen 1/4 helium. So, H =3D (3/4)N protons + > (3/4)N electrons, and He =3D 2*(1/4)N protons + 2*(1/4)N neutrons + > 2*(1/4)N electrons. WP:Proton, WP:Neutron, an WP:Standard_Model > suggest to me that protons and neutrons each have 3 elementary > particles, and an electron is 1 elementary particle. So, U =3D [(3/4)N*3 > + (3/4)N*1] + [2*(1/4)N*3 + 2*(1/4)N*3 + 2*(1/4)N*1]. Zapping the Wand > of Maximas, we conclude that there are P =3D 6.5*10^80 particles in the > universe (the same order of magnitude as N). > > (This result is obviously wrong; I've neglected the photons, the rest > of the elements, your mom, whether N includes other forms of matter, > etc. Also, I fails at maths. Likely there is someone who actually > knows what ri is doing, and has a provided a better answer on the > Internet. This potential resource was carefully ignored for the lolz.) > > The particle index could potentially be written in other bases. Base 2 > would take too long, base 5 is my pet fave, so of course would not be > used. Dozenal is a number system for devil satan heathens, so God > wouldn't use it. Lojban lacks convenient support for base 60, so is > also unlikely to be used. Recursive calls to a successor function > might be used, but that would be even worst than base 2. The best > offense for what I'm pushing for is base 16. As we were made in His > image, or something, the bases used are either 10, or 20. But, 20 > suffers from the same problems as 60; no words for the numbers. So, > particles would be indexed in base 10. Therefore, an index requires up > to 81 words to speak of any arbitrary particle. Adding the "xyxi", we > need 83 words to refer to a particle. > > Each event would involve 2 particles. (There may occasionally be > events involving less.) Let us suppose that each particle interacts > with 8 of its nearest neighbors each time step t_p =3D 10^-44s > (WP:Planck_time). WP:Age_of_the_universe gives us 4.3*10^17 seconds as > the age of the universe, so the universe is 4.3*10^61 ticks old. Then, > (8 events/particle * P particles) =3D 8P events/tick =3D 8*P*4.3*10^61 > events =3D 2.2*10^143 events have occurred Since The Beginning Of Time > Itself. (Wrong because I don't know how many events per particle per > second actually happen.) > > (total number of events) * (words in each event) =3D > (2.2*10^143)*(2+3*(83)) =3D 5.5*10^145 > > =3D=3DEND TL;DR=3D=3D > (If you didn't read all of that, I will eat your flesh.) > > Therefore, it takes 5.5*10^145 {si}'s to return to the beginning of > the universe. =E2=88=8E > > Honestly, it'd be much easier to just use {su}. God is quite qualified > to speak on the subject: http://jbotcan.org/jbo/arch/res/1093.html > > > mu'omi'e.djeims. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.