From lojban+bncCK30vq5WELHzl-kEGgQD2u72@googlegroups.com Thu Jan 06 09:20:01 2011 Received: from mail-pv0-f189.google.com ([74.125.83.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PatVE-0005sZ-L0; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 09:20:00 -0800 Received: by pvh1 with SMTP id 1sf6631904pvh.16 for ; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 09:19:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:date:from:to:subject:message-id :references:mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=UGXTBGdjJkwMJSTeqr4KrsHlQXd41SNBTYrTsv+TS9c=; b=4ZdbL+YyGxtzX8Io2Qpmks+JAGB/vUitUx4PWs3S31eqQZQcRD+DoYZTGbfjIRiM3l vc8+Iw6x5tsOCsCg1+jrxRSDCG2qFntr7HcZh0mIGv7QLYMfvHn9cmVay1eSSFrqE1Ji tiRNYR4ivdrzrzXbCmnr1eoIFziaYGCGAfrh0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id:references :mime-version:in-reply-to:user-agent:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; b=Ronzny3XfttHWUcZ2/g0aLIffvs7sjTQB9xBQiJHbdpC9vpem7kwbuE7d0XpT2K+qY oR9qWNpjda/2ZZOxdtQ6cj9O6ji5LdEUNraCVyq0jD0MqHOydiowZXlFena99NFvBI/k qrO5iKPDWon0xusia0bksrR4/Yfaha7Qd4W3U= Received: by 10.142.152.27 with SMTP id z27mr78317wfd.31.1294334385916; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 09:19:45 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.121.31 with SMTP id t31ls25134662wfc.3.p; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 09:19:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.212.15 with SMTP id k15mr917527wfg.74.1294334384062; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 09:19:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.212.15 with SMTP id k15mr917526wfg.74.1294334384037; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 09:19:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from chain.digitalkingdom.org (digitalkingdom.org [173.13.139.234]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id w13si1199717wfh.3.2011.01.06.09.19.43 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 06 Jan 2011 09:19:43 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) client-ip=173.13.139.234; Received: from rlpowell by chain.digitalkingdom.org with local (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PatV1-0005sK-7n for lojban@googlegroups.com; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 09:19:43 -0800 Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 09:19:43 -0800 From: Robin Lee Powell To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) Message-ID: <20110106171943.GZ17534@digitalkingdom.org> References: <20110105165231.GK17534@digitalkingdom.org> <20110105220532.GN17534@digitalkingdom.org> <4D25D915.9080305@lojban.org> <4D25F6F2.7050205@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <4D25F6F2.7050205@gmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.20 (2009-06-14) X-Original-Sender: rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org designates 173.13.139.234 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=rlpowell@digitalkingdom.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline On Thu, Jan 06, 2011 at 05:08:02PM +0000, And Rosta wrote: > > In English, logical scope tends to be ambiguous, at least within > the same clause. So English "not A, B and C" can mean "It is not > the case that each of A,B,C is the case" or "For each x, where x > is one of A,B,C, it is not the case that x is the case". > > Unless it has been fixed by recent BPFK action, Lojban has > *exactly the same ambiguity* with regard to logical scope between > elements that are not explicitly prenexed. Show me an example please. > (At least Lojban has the option of prenexing to eradicate > ambiguity, but it is an option almost never used and that if often > used would be received with opprobrium as stylistically > objectionable.) That last bit isn't true for me, fwiw. -Robin -- http://singinst.org/ : Our last, best hope for a fantastic future. Lojban (http://www.lojban.org/): The language in which "this parrot is dead" is "ti poi spitaki cu morsi", but "this sentence is false" is "na nei". My personal page: http://www.digitalkingdom.org/rlp/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. 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