From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRDI3JjpBBoEscOrbQ@googlegroups.com Thu Jan 06 13:04:22 2011 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Pax0M-0007lq-Sx; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 13:04:22 -0800 Received: by gwj17 with SMTP id 17sf15661605gwj.16 for ; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 13:04:13 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=36FMGKbKG3x8/RG0tquE/XD61sj40Cnke3edYFyUW64=; b=u9TJK+pc5FbDGK75INJfxtT9FiKkxDmB/fMdQq+/mN3Or4UCZVMSmbw/QUod6ZhM7a GDN2VmkxWmCkjTg3FDMFUiCEJ+zMs7Fs7IyMDuNisMgX409KhOSv3xs+oyEvon8tWEGX vU7ml3jnE54MVUH34r0e9459vP3ajg1xVje8Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=XH5n3Zaxr5jqZN1rCY9LQzdAy17EJMJIsClbsA0suUjLvFHPwHEkanfV4DB+yOFuzv O1+hxMgAHtqEEoWwPdNWAiyqkJY7hkcMCS9ffB/l0V/sW4G+8hYcp7YZyQ7cK20u+Xnx sfuA/wMTT06XHJIvf0RTk9fVToTPkK1UJzyGI= Received: by 10.150.173.4 with SMTP id v4mr1760774ybe.69.1294347848432; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 13:04:08 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.151.33.32 with SMTP id l32ls9538416ybj.2.p; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 13:04:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.151.114.1 with SMTP id r1mr3190697ybm.49.1294347847687; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 13:04:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.151.114.1 with SMTP id r1mr3190696ybm.49.1294347847635; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 13:04:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.121]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id v5si2385835ybi.12.2011.01.06.13.04.06; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 13:04:06 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.121 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.121; Received: (qmail 11828 invoked by uid 60001); 6 Jan 2011 21:04:04 -0000 Message-ID: <479184.5151.qm@web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 2IArj1cVM1lLj5FEsbBjXy5tRULXbta6_uA.Wlg10GrlKfo 4Yu_WLWedJD_STN31kAW7rAIklPM9Ihi9jFn0m5yEQNLenkH3MIVq.RT9bXc tFZF5lCYLxi3bqobVXgz8MY4ITqPuCQLktAA5TmFLCCcli23stZttrd30XYs rDYNJUvZ5Sx71VjnyLCR7l1y064sH7ofmduOiDQLTcZlGxbiEibg2r7ij0C8 Jkgc._Q.kydnAhHurp1p6dXfc6336n.U54XEtNKWyuCtaXIbEdTTPtGngzmX dQe0MjTxXJTR0H9FVvKyClHQ6E0s3hXc2Sk4OuuzLgLoEywsyQdma_RRRl.H KNKjyoIOqgADz0CszyDnDhhtAaiOHRGk9chr8FRV6oBP.BFCiKgAbZUJz0vj qs.KexAJYkNZYhQ-- Received: from [99.92.110.13] by web81305.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 13:04:03 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 References: <9114501.161.1294150198377.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhy19> <7c0687a1-deba-495a-9760-95d1d0649423@t8g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <20110105165231.GK17534@digitalkingdom.org> <4D25F32F.8000209@gmail.com> <20110106171347.GY17534@digitalkingdom.org> <4D260BE0.3020909@gmail.com> <948823.24460.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D262B90.8000701@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 13:04:03 -0800 (PST) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: <4D262B90.8000701@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.121 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 ----- Original Message ---- From: And Rosta To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Thu, January 6, 2011 2:52:32 PM Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) John E Clifford, On 06/01/2011 18:52: > Well, the non-brivla stuff is, of course, also the non-predicate logic stuff, >so > we are beyond semantics into pragmatics -- about which we have even less of an > idea than semantics. Some of the syntactically nonbrivla stuff is still predicate logic stuff. Indeed I think the vast majority of cmavo can be translated into predicate logic (or an extended version thereof). ** Interesting. I suppose you mean the prepositions, which merely extend the predicates, and maybe the actual modals which would fit into modal predicate logic (second order intensional). Attitudinals and the like go directly to pragmatics, not passing Go. The plethora of connectives and RHE markers are all part of the basic transferal into predicate logic. So, yes, you are right that there is some non-brivla stuff that is still predicate logic or an easy (well, ...) extension of that. Unfortunately, I've forgotten the original, so I can't tell whether is for or against some position. --And. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.