From lojban+bncCLr6ktCfBBCE_JjpBBoEuTFAug@googlegroups.com Thu Jan 06 14:11:30 2011 Received: from mail-yi0-f61.google.com ([209.85.218.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Pay3J-0008QB-TW; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:11:30 -0800 Received: by yia27 with SMTP id 27sf10434718yia.16 for ; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:11:20 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:date:from:to :subject:message-id:mail-followup-to:references:mime-version :in-reply-to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; bh=NftgXmmaUD2A2ARhMsWEDgExnV8YOY9nzO4cE3PJTDA=; b=Aw1NvfkIfu3Xj1v+KPM2xcj/8LCyvXQOb1nJtjcGKI9Q3Bkefzjxmk+OOYWuOFbQXz cFveK31ZbMFxIrRfXZ/R1wl2QsE/e77fpyy+idhHt9kkEqT6T287vT9T6VNWq2dVPmbP 6Tw95MKqPjPrgencHkH7y3tt57MxDWmFq8K+Q= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:date:from:to:subject:message-id :mail-followup-to:references:mime-version:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-disposition:content-transfer-encoding; b=TkCr5NweVY/Sy5vDAQVxp7pbc8PL/QsWAOdJQuFoUdbV5hz0wpQl0rpVLYxBBO+kPs 8SFZGSmHA2k0IpfPAwSzzdyz3YLgoJaqOFOQh/yqSzCVmgU0ODVm5/BdHORz6UHOeyEZ wkousjyPt23vrqeNgnXOWrb6G5LU5OSmwjJ18= Received: by 10.151.69.24 with SMTP id w24mr1787659ybk.18.1294351876226; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:11:16 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.151.33.32 with SMTP id l32ls9566254ybj.2.p; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:11:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.236.103.10 with SMTP id e10mr2937118yhg.11.1294351875631; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:11:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.236.103.10 with SMTP id e10mr2937117yhg.11.1294351875602; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:11:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-gx0-f179.google.com (mail-gx0-f179.google.com [209.85.161.179]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id o10si356025yha.4.2011.01.06.14.11.15; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:11:15 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 209.85.161.179 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) client-ip=209.85.161.179; Received: by gxk21 with SMTP id 21so8124654gxk.24 for ; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:11:15 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.201.11 with SMTP id y11mr14972933anf.114.1294351873740; Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:11:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunflowerriver.org (173-10-243-253-Albuquerque.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [173.10.243.253]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id x31sm32688526ana.29.2011.01.06.14.11.09 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Thu, 06 Jan 2011 14:11:10 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2011 15:11:07 -0700 From: ".alyn.post." To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Semantic Representation of Lojban Message-ID: <20110106221107.GI27821@alice.local> Mail-Followup-To: lojban@googlegroups.com References: <20110106204534.GF27821@alice.local> <200257.69484.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <200257.69484.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Original-Sender: alyn.post@lodockikumazvati.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 209.85.161.179 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of alanpost@sunflowerriver.org) smtp.mail=alanpost@sunflowerriver.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable By "playing with it," I mean specifically that I have an application in mind[1] and will be doing the minimum amount of work in this domain to support that application, with my goal being to develop and deliver the application, rather than a formal solution to this problem. The initial version of the application requires only a pathetically bad approximation to this problem, and so I will be able to use the result in well under a few thousand man-hours. -Alan 1: http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/kiksispehi On Thu, Jan 06, 2011 at 02:01:56PM -0800, John E Clifford wrote: > As a practical matter, the first (and officially easiest -- but time will= tell)=20 > part would be to devise the rules for working back from Lojban surface=20 > structures to the underlying predicate logic ones: all logical connective= s=20 > between sentences, all quantifiers and negations in appropriate prenex po= sition=20 > (so the structure that immediate follows -- a sentence of some sort -- wi= ll be=20 > exactly the intended scope). You might also start a bunch of meaning=20 > postulates, that relate one concept to others (I suppose, at least initia= lly.=20 > that the metalanguage will be English) and throw in the laws of logic jus= t in=20 > case (but they are probably going to be needed early on anyhow, to sort o= ut=20 > issues in prenectification). That ought to be worth a few thousand man-h= ours. >=20 >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message ---- > From: .alyn.post. > To: lojban@googlegroups.com > Sent: Thu, January 6, 2011 2:45:34 PM > Subject: [lojban] Semantic Representation of Lojban >=20 > [I've moved this to it's own thread for higher visibility of the > topic.] >=20 > On Thu, Jan 06, 2011 at 12:38:23PM -0800, Robin Lee Powell wrote: > > > Well, to a certain extent you're right, but if you choose the > > > right kind of semantic representation, you can do things like > > > proving that two different strings of Lojban have the same > > > meaning. Correct me if I'm wrong, but at the moment no machine > > > grammar of Lojban represents the fact that =93mi viska do=94 is > > > equivalent to =93do se viska mi=94. > >=20 > > Right, very true. People have started playing with that. > >=20 >=20 > I've started playing with it, certainly. Enough to where I'm > considering flying out to Penguicon to brainstorm and talk about > it with other Lojbanists. >=20 > If others of you are working on it and are able and interested in > meeting about it, will you speak up? >=20 > -Alan > --=20 > .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= =20 > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to=20 > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at=20 > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. >=20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > --=20 > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegr= oups.com. > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojb= an?hl=3Den. >=20 --=20 .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.