From lojban+bncCPGMg4mHHBDq_5zpBBoEdWtRAw@googlegroups.com Fri Jan 07 08:31:51 2011 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PbFEB-0005WX-Rj; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 08:31:51 -0800 Received: by qwd6 with SMTP id 6sf57905799qwd.16 for ; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 08:31:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=AMwlPbPtQiPhSr0Qi4ubyE7ljCuEGhkKYk/meiQ9aes=; b=ycgp58ZwKr3HKmiFBW4z5kpsLa3IFqS6d0ycUs2rpyLwq1GCB887G6GNZkitosSBhg LnaQqOAONdjXZJXSXc0GaWBzyhhoG0JnS1vBCR1k6gk9PUNaCi83XSq9Wbxeyy4FKN3R y3eGtNDicia2jtrnXtRfrM5DHMbvD6zb020SA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=cUa5Rn68WGj9aFRLNHTX0XX/TH8LI/LGmqB9YjLPuArIQUEMmEfuf/SViwPCRk/lgX zijh5gjP3SQPhKblOltQMUcwDjma6mmMUEBDk0AdIaYrWwEgBZnhS5XxXkfkMpREcutg 03fxnR/YDNnM3l4PkjE/2bgU9GTqzOFZ5xEYM= Received: by 10.229.67.232 with SMTP id s40mr3589954qci.49.1294417898351; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 08:31:38 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.197.8 with SMTP id ei8ls4522322qcb.1.p; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 08:31:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.30.198 with SMTP id v6mr2829265qcc.19.1294417897638; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 08:31:37 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.30.198 with SMTP id v6mr2829264qcc.19.1294417897504; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 08:31:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qw0-f52.google.com (mail-qw0-f52.google.com [209.85.216.52]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id l11si4821884qcg.8.2011.01.07.08.31.36; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 08:31:36 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of ivo.doko@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.52 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.216.52; Received: by mail-qw0-f52.google.com with SMTP id 4so18577921qwi.11 for ; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 08:31:36 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.79.12 with SMTP id n12mr22135513qck.129.1294417896376; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 08:31:36 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.176.71 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Jan 2011 08:31:36 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <56497.7920.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <9114501.161.1294150198377.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhy19> <7c0687a1-deba-495a-9760-95d1d0649423@t8g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <20110105165231.GK17534@digitalkingdom.org> <20110105220532.GN17534@digitalkingdom.org> <673286.9022.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <56497.7920.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 17:31:36 +0100 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) From: Ivo Doko To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: ivo.doko@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of ivo.doko@gmail.com designates 209.85.216.52 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=ivo.doko@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00163646d924e788800499442673 --00163646d924e788800499442673 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On 7 January 2011 16:44, John E Clifford wrote: > I don't recall saying that, but I remember someone did. Was the point that > it didn't matter in Lojban? It clearly does in English. > Well the example dialogue was in English and I said that the meaning of the waiter's question depended on his/her emphasizing of the words in the sentence. "Do you WANT cream or sugar in your coffee?" indicates that the waiter is asking whether you want any of the two added to your coffee (i.e. cream or sugar or both) so in this case the "or" acts as the logical OR. The required answer to this question is "Yes." (if you want either cream or sugar or both in your coffee) or "No." (if you want neither). "Do you want CREAM or SUGAR in your coffee?" indicates that the waiter is asking whether you want either cream or sugar in your coffee and to answer which one. Actually, in this case the "or" is neither logical OR nor XOR, because this question doesn't ask for a binary answer indicating only whether the waiter's supposition is true or false, it asks for a descriptive answer indicating in which way the waiter's supposition is true or false. The required answer to this question is either "Cream.", "Sugar.", "Both." or "Neither.". -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --00163646d924e788800499442673 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 7 January 2011 16:44, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com= > wrote:
I don't recall saying that, but I remember someone di= d.=A0 Was the point that it didn't matter in Lojban?=A0 It clearly does= in English.

Well the example dialogue was in E= nglish and I said that the meaning of the waiter's question depended on= his/her emphasizing of the words in the sentence.

"Do you WANT= cream or sugar in your coffee?" indicates that the waiter is asking w= hether you want any of the two added to your coffee (i.e. cream or sugar or= both) so in this case the "or" acts as the logical OR. The requi= red answer to this question is "Yes." (if you want either cream o= r sugar or both in your coffee) or "No." (if you want neither).
"Do you want CREAM or SUGAR in your coffee?" indicates that t= he waiter is asking whether you want either cream or sugar in your coffee a= nd to answer which one. Actually, in this case the "or" is neithe= r logical OR nor XOR, because this question doesn't ask for a binary an= swer indicating only whether the waiter's supposition is true or false,= it asks for a descriptive answer indicating in which way the waiter's = supposition is true or false. The required answer to this question is eithe= r "Cream.", "Sugar.", "Both." or "Neithe= r.".

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