From lojban+bncCIPo5fbjAhCQxoLpBBoEo2myxg@googlegroups.com Sun Jan 02 08:09:03 2011 Received: from mail-qy0-f189.google.com ([209.85.216.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PZQUL-0006R1-JZ; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 08:09:02 -0800 Received: by qyk1 with SMTP id 1sf41549913qyk.16 for ; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 08:08:51 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received :mime-version:received:received:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references :user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=bjqi7JCY6UB/1U6QXQZf8wC02ua4FkT0n/IV1qbEuow=; b=c9+nJmtWhI6Wkq10P9Qsuvz53TCh6YN+PePEEEGCxNqxXZJ2UL2a7DxFXr1QLrWtdA xTj6zgCNHWG9+sVEYB9koe4wsrWvdEHcUvMLcrlaPEouAOja08xISBBE4bh1Ml8Ba0yC LMQ7o+bjq3T43Eo2Ufax4WCHB/AxzD70YGr4k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:mime-version:date:in-reply-to:x-ip:references :user-agent:x-http-useragent:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id :list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=BFGNrQQCdw4K3lMtzkeXqG2IVsNfkOO2s5V9Zyb64L/mH04kAY7KcTVtWpzhCtNnk8 Fz2GZKaW2AbDFXJLhIgtU28ycg2W9XnnIoGmg+mn450RIiKsDbynqtZI/NhynchJcoA3 xkrovENLCHGAbWftA8QI/A0mQDFB5Y31eku9Q= Received: by 10.224.2.202 with SMTP id 10mr1031464qak.45.1293984528355; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 08:08:48 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.224.172.73 with SMTP id k9ls1853816qaz.2.p; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 08:08:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.224.54.81 with SMTP id p17mr1819848qag.19.1293984527794; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 08:08:47 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.90.155.19 with SMTP id c19mr617078age.51.1293963988944; Sun, 02 Jan 2011 02:26:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com with HTTP; Sun, 2 Jan 2011 02:26:28 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2011 02:26:28 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: X-IP: 91.79.11.149 References: <201012301717.31348.phma@phma.optus.nu> User-Agent: G2/1.0 X-HTTP-UserAgent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; ru; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101203 Firefox/3.6.13 ( .NET CLR 3.5.30729),gzip(gfe) Message-ID: <1fc8bfcd-a485-4cc8-af89-1f0b152c1058@l17g2000yqe.googlegroups.com> Subject: [lojban] Re: GIhA question From: slobin To: lojban X-Original-Sender: cyril.slobin@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Seems like gmail have troubles delivering my post to the list.Trying to repost this by google groups web interface. Sorry if you are reading this second or third time. On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 1:41 PM, Michael Turniansky wrote: > Also, if you DID want to have same unspecified-but-obvious object > that you both talked to and ate, you could say "mi tavla gi'e citka > vau zo'e" After a cup of tea: I think now that you are wrong. {mi tavla gi'e citka vau da} is equal to {mi tavla da gi'e citka da}, where {da} IS a shared object. {mi tavla gi'e citka vau zo'e} is equal to {mi tavla zo'e gi'e citka zo'e}, where {zo'e} IS NOT a shared object. Unless you agree with this, you must state that either (1) adding an elidable terminator {vau} changes a meaning of sentence, or (2) using {zo'e} has a different meaning that an absent argument. Both seems not plausible for me. For the second possibility: consider me wanting to share the third argument, not the second. I've always believed that {mi tavla zo'e da} and {mi tavla fi da} are equivalent, and therefore {mi tavla gi'e pinxe vau zo'e da} and {mi tavla gi'e pinxe vau fi da} are equivalent too. BTW, this (unlike talking to things eaten) has really happen with me during today New Year party! ;-) -- http://slobin.pp.ru/ `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, `it means just what I choose it to mean' -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.