From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRDbrZ7pBBoEwrERhQ@googlegroups.com Fri Jan 07 14:42:50 2011 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PbL1B-0002EA-Ct; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:42:50 -0800 Received: by gwj17 with SMTP id 17sf16655871gwj.16 for ; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:42:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=POMvJD5++Qbykz/BW4pM02K1yR05iesHM8QYYdorbmA=; b=1uMDZBl/SZDR+MKW6+bEbSsyKhDmT3ZnNMB4PsLmKolwM3z+C+T2hHzMYNtyjHrZTY vrIXcj/hG7FLt7xletZm25EgMMwNv0qQ0mnjklifPwrv46sKZnHSQO7y2GwtF3oQvqGx 91xL5wJaWjD+aw8vqihWbd33aifLk7OZh2/Fs= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=FkEvO6c3i2ziwPZFlSLcF7jsPueFSUPCpnBUIk+mle9M5STED0c3H91m5PTQAnhyxr ObUe9t9WLqTXJiReJUkcPl8wr1Vym8dRERr1BuK/iWSht9dX3ZNwRV8Brnajf8hpB02l o7JxRQ0X8VqXZ1qekkGTcEF43sXSaE8IrH4Ec= Received: by 10.151.3.13 with SMTP id f13mr1892806ybi.37.1294440155062; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:42:35 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.151.17.13 with SMTP id u13ls10052388ybi.1.p; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:42:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.150.218.15 with SMTP id q15mr2637358ybg.1.1294440154457; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:42:34 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.150.218.15 with SMTP id q15mr2637357ybg.1.1294440154432; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:42:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.118]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id v5si2454776ybi.12.2011.01.07.14.42.33; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:42:33 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.118 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.118; Received: (qmail 23271 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jan 2011 22:42:32 -0000 Message-ID: <848989.4209.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 1D8zCocVM1kCZve8dPcGPZuiDJcVsiQrK0TH93vjU4vJ9IY W7lrFtQk8za4gR0j7BN5xCNLz9yl179zVcMAj0kiPMmakRVZd3ewmIUfAcuj I195g7bJg3MVLSoxWkGVRqDLZDBwWPfOXMxDyBVJt3GnopJoRaGWdYaLmVSz qr6xHFDLvzeng3lhi1sTTTM3hoPwRy.4dYSR18FHA8jaSkKt_McZgnIePISo YGJBlUUqMez4xIZF_wu.T13sqfMOZcXN8gfq70cP73Qn.8Ph8tf8xMeaxylM s0uwQ2TbvDONQy0ddxILYuaS9PnyZTyaUNkJQxf1tIqBzQnMNy8nMdENoFE9 4NdNLO77LH9Yarq5WIfIm7nsdm6Ai4cuAuarI7RVe4RldOIB5FoP3dforykv e.ma8QM_IIkWNxQ-- Received: from [99.92.110.13] by web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:42:32 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 References: <294930.94884.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20110107194348.GT23787@digitalkingdom.org> <201101071606.28875.phma@phma.optus.nu> <20110107210820.GB23787@digitalkingdom.org> Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 14:42:32 -0800 (PST) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: Cake, Pie or Ice Cream? (was: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language)) To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.118 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just so, hence the requirement that the connectives be taken as connecting = only=20 atomic expressions, i.e., not grouped ones. That's a hard rule to justify= =20 within Lojban, but it works fine in Logic (Skolem normal forms), where the= =20 negations are not part of the connective. Of course, then, the 'ji' trick= =20 doesn't work exactly. On the other hand, using the groupings does cover so= me=20 cases that simple normal forms don't -- that is, more that one TT line at o= nce. ----- Original Message ---- From: Jorge Llamb=EDas To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 4:28:35 PM Subject: Re: Cake, Pie or Ice Cream? (was: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop= =20 saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language)) Connectives are left-grouping, so: ko'a .enai ko'e na.e ko'i broda expands to: genai ge ko'a broda ginai ko'e broda gi ko'i broda =3D ge ganai ko'a broda gi ko'e broda gi ko'i broda i.e. Both if ko'a broda then ko'e broda, and also ko'i broda. Probably not what was intended. In fact, other than the two basic multiple ".e" or multiple ".a", "... .e .... e .....e ..." or "...a ... a....a ....", any other combination of more than one connective is likely to produce unintended meanings. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= =20 "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to=20 lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at=20 http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.