From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhC9sp7pBBoEfi0JEA@googlegroups.com Fri Jan 07 14:53:00 2011 Received: from mail-yw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.213.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PbLB0-0002WX-Ry; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:53:00 -0800 Received: by ywh1 with SMTP id 1sf16486948ywh.16 for ; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:52:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=6ea4h4F8MjlAZnnkPxCe5tF1hQPJ3VFjHDexwM1k0A4=; b=Q8Srm80xVGfk+sYtJ+CZEu511FQDL3t+9NB/3IvVwdMavqLyqSw4wpVUgERGcapdz3 DxKcRBgwWHcTTVgq/5dJ+fVyR2fnBfNdX0S3JdhKhVDBZ5QbjZsTXBmCnv/xsQ6/asov 3XHeNthyUDVNJMkj4jy+YJ6v97thrBrPb19hk= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=VrSDc1fhMmZCRdAMiZM6+gKsdghV+c2kALiIkSwyHz0/HQEYGbbOj5BbzvMSIpCXsC DVeT4jIJODr5/cJqIKz8OiMwzuCCxyL24+GKxt725oYBCNanzjJJ9BLkRoc5PUv0CPCv 0AWazVlkqk2vXc0ucY241ePZvqn+0lH32fiHw= Received: by 10.100.121.20 with SMTP id t20mr839619anc.45.1294440765790; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:52:45 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.141.220 with SMTP id n28ls939558ibu.0.p; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:52:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.208.71 with SMTP id gb7mr10456237ibb.3.1294440765098; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:52:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.208.71 with SMTP id gb7mr10456236ibb.3.1294440765055; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:52:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f181.google.com (mail-iy0-f181.google.com [209.85.210.181]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id d9si5858155ibq.3.2011.01.07.14.52.44; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:52:44 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.181 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.181; Received: by mail-iy0-f181.google.com with SMTP id 18so18505889iyj.26 for ; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:52:44 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.199.133 with SMTP id es5mr3844129ibb.93.1294440763945; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 14:52:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.199.140 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Jan 2011 14:52:43 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <44615.24746.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <9114501.161.1294150198377.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhy19> <7c0687a1-deba-495a-9760-95d1d0649423@t8g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <20110105165231.GK17534@digitalkingdom.org> <20110105220532.GN17534@digitalkingdom.org> <673286.9022.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <44615.24746.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 15:52:43 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.181 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=90e6ba4fc27aeaf4e70499497996 --90e6ba4fc27aeaf4e70499497996 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Agreed, but that just proves that the meaning of the English word "or" isn't consistent. "cream or sugar" => OR "pie or ice cream" => XOR (usually) On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:45 PM, John E Clifford wrote: > But "Do you want pie OR ice cream" almost always is XOR -- even with "or", > when children (regardless of age) are involved. > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jonathan Jones > *To:* lojban@googlegroups.com > *Sent:* Fri, January 7, 2011 4:33:33 PM > > *Subject:* Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] > Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) > > On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Ivo Doko wrote: > >> On 7 January 2011 02:06, John E Clifford wrote: >> >>> It doesn't matter what the waiter emphasized. >>> >> >> You either don't know English well enough or are just ignoring the >> importance of emphasizing for the sake of your point. > > > The question is the same regardless of emphasis. > > Also, in the real world, the question is never an XOR question, so saying > "CREAM or SUGAR" does not suggest that the customer can have only one or the > other, but merely that the customer is hard of hearing. > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu > do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --90e6ba4fc27aeaf4e70499497996 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Agreed, but that just proves that the meaning of the English word "or&= quot; isn't consistent.

"cream or sugar" =3D> OR"pie or ice cream" =3D> XOR (usually)

On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:45 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrot= e:
But "Do you want pie OR ice cream" almost alway= s is XOR -- even with "or", when children (regardless of age) are= involved.

From: Jonathan Jones <<= a href=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">eyeonus@gmail.com= >
To: lojban@googlegroups.com<= br>
Sent: Fri, January 7= , 2011 4:33:33 PM


On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Ivo Doko <ivo.doko@gmail.com> wrote:
On 7 January 2011 02:06, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
It doesn't matter what the waiter emphasized.

You either don't know English well enou= gh or are just ignoring the importance of emphasizing for the sake of your = point.

The question is the same regardless of emphasis.

Also, in = the real world, the question is never an XOR question, so saying "CREA= M or SUGAR" does not suggest that the customer can have only one or th= e other, but merely that the customer is hard of hearing.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le= bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to= the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

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--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be = denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I= am your father. :D )

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To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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