From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRChzJ7pBBoEBJwvQw@googlegroups.com Fri Jan 07 15:48:00 2011 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PbM2F-0003Wk-5n; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:48:00 -0800 Received: by gwj17 with SMTP id 17sf16684361gwj.16 for ; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:47:49 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=n7I9VAs/sUxdHJVGr/L7K9t695WoWO6/L/cb4J4Nff8=; b=YXhWdIkhZP9fOp4jq19Fbpe7fkWe2gtGTasQpL9/6ScekbN6WjQvT7a69sQjkyfQgS AtqwJKCasoTAKx1YCqeQhIkiCrpcwzewrmCISM+cIR4dpxEG0iirbk2GAaKfbJb9uxif vrdYAQE9L+8wc1UasdKbTCd4LguSrLqXn1AGo= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=yAujn8NJD2wUyAdwCDtyzYIhvepmxZ+6YNOoNveFXiDMDD6GqWD/3Mxq3Uyqc4dTm7 bhFxSuyXmNalepyx1mtQ1h5tfDr03yMowi4uQqfKlYe9O79bfo/XI7MM6e8zrGvWawdk FaBkHowITp8uci0ywyKOh6/MQTjhqZ4gmYn1I= Received: by 10.90.1.7 with SMTP id 7mr275177aga.29.1294444065648; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:47:45 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.100.75.33 with SMTP id x33ls1753789ana.4.p; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:47:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.37.12 with SMTP id k12mr100312ank.52.1294444061610; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:47:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.37.12 with SMTP id k12mr100311ank.52.1294444061580; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:47:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.117]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id q5si10878116anf.4.2011.01.07.15.47.40; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:47:40 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.117 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.117; Received: (qmail 35125 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jan 2011 23:47:40 -0000 Message-ID: <845107.34753.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: yqLflygVM1md7FjQAWJEbcoErqLwmYyQ6_VAIUcGE3PrTd3 QlaIoahf3J7lBw9dSLfdSTHiwQf_9dFl6AJ1E_B83qn5KNlPc_zwhdlxrI3X SKmlc8d6k87c.L0DeGiifAkzaxPzwNze_fNlEZ2NlfvpKZ1N.NK1vg2uh3Cc Pd5g8i3rBCzwZzbNXCoRtwM8f9WhIXWuxaI4gXZVH_KHEeNsai8Hm5Q.86hb wrJ.JOGYBw6Ky8Up7VOnVOiwcbLgOi0xKMCtJgXfPBZK2htNrEI3I9oFawjR _DSjKk9Sd2zvN8k70SpjWvju55zp5jCaXhOqjfQn5xT_FjuwSJi95HRETdm4 mjj7owAUqiphC_I1YvtEsAlQyRjpG6gzl5NPPyBPp.fXil7.YaULNK7d1x6g jX9DmRFO9s_eGSg-- Received: from [99.92.110.13] by web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:47:39 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 References: <9114501.161.1294150198377.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhy19> <7c0687a1-deba-495a-9760-95d1d0649423@t8g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <20110105165231.GK17534@digitalkingdom.org> <20110105220532.GN17534@digitalkingdom.org> <673286.9022.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <44615.24746.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 15:47:39 -0800 (PST) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.117 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-414967142-1294444059=:34753" --0-414967142-1294444059=:34753 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 And the news in this is? ________________________________ From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 4:52:43 PM Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) Agreed, but that just proves that the meaning of the English word "or" isn't consistent. "cream or sugar" => OR "pie or ice cream" => XOR (usually) On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:45 PM, John E Clifford wrote: But "Do you want pie OR ice cream" almost always is XOR -- even with "or", when children (regardless of age) are involved. > > > > ________________________________ From: Jonathan Jones >To: lojban@googlegroups.com >Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 4:33:33 PM > >Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: >Vote for the Future Global Language) > > > >On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Ivo Doko wrote: > >On 7 January 2011 02:06, John E Clifford wrote: >> >>It doesn't matter what the waiter emphasized. >>> >>You either don't know English well enough or are just ignoring the importance of >>emphasizing for the sake of your point. >The question is the same regardless of emphasis. > >Also, in the real world, the question is never an XOR question, so saying "CREAM >or SUGAR" does not suggest that the customer can have only one or the other, but >merely that the customer is hard of hearing. > >-- >mu'o mi'e .aionys. > >.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do >zo'o >(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > >-- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >"lojban" group. >To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > -- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >"lojban" group. >To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0-414967142-1294444059=:34753 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
And the news in this is?


From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
= Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011= 4:52:43 PM
Subject: Re= : Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for = the Future Global Language)

Agreed, but that just proves that the meaning of the English word "or" isn'= t consistent.

"cream or sugar" =3D> OR
"pie or ice cream" =3D&= gt; XOR (usually)

On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:45 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrot= e:
But "Do you want pie OR ice cream" almost always is XOR -= - even with "or", when children (regardless of age) are involved.


From: Jonathan Jones <<= a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" h= ref=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com">eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 7= , 2011 4:33:33 PM


On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Ivo Doko <ivo.doko@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:
On 7 January 2011 02:06, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yaho= o.com> wrote:
It doesn't matter what the waiter emphasized.
<= /blockquote>

You either don't know English well enough or ar= e just ignoring the importance of emphasizing for the sake of your point.

The question is the same regardless of emphasis.

Also, in = the real world, the question is never an XOR question, so saying "CREAM or = SUGAR" does not suggest that the customer can have only one or the other, b= ut merely that the customer is hard of hearing.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pil= no be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke,= I am your father. :D )

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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegro= ups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

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--
mu'o mi'e .= aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.= luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D = )

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To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

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