From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRC2zZ7pBBoEXWWvNA@googlegroups.com Fri Jan 07 15:50:29 2011 Received: from mail-yi0-f61.google.com ([209.85.218.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PbM4d-0003cL-T7; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:50:29 -0800 Received: by yia27 with SMTP id 27sf11237850yia.16 for ; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:50:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=rAIABtxhUo6de1O6QLXZU0+9dzRJgJ4dZcvEfeZnPP0=; b=QsS2itOSDej3pfZdrt10gmuw4MYqFeyRGlNS6XeJjf9n1l82hARKv3Qq9Ote4teBCZ afyWJPZwuNWWtPlaCJlxl6fp8hcBJE1qQi0GBir+dbb3QucWEJUz8qZLWy9uQUYPu4Lc +TQTukUMRMdKzffiLKWIIMfbA3SEXaxCbdimg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=5P97BowUiSbD1CQJS3B5asT87NeXuln/WiplQNwS+vmMAmqcggduPyE+rN6kVX26eZ l6659gVTMVNeNHbW2mwMToflMdhEVpvh8z0HAguxv3yT3BPh8NPtGGx1fLUbk4ZHn2H1 PhpHQqAkTAGH0RajvfsQXM+1DoUejlDXRSXDA= Received: by 10.91.51.35 with SMTP id d35mr281641agk.18.1294444214393; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:50:14 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.90.17.22 with SMTP id 22ls4202853agq.2.p; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:50:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.147.4 with SMTP id u4mr1449103agd.19.1294444213648; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:50:13 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.90.147.4 with SMTP id u4mr1449102agd.19.1294444213631; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:50:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.118]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id c13si633369anc.7.2011.01.07.15.50.12; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:50:12 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.118 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.118; Received: (qmail 67989 invoked by uid 60001); 7 Jan 2011 23:50:11 -0000 Message-ID: <700605.65089.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: 3HS3dRwVM1miKHMym34ngIafH7oWRq94Zz32IdAOobN3a8m ftGMX0SjiEcl5b569HY7JJ4myS.bM.rPw0YzXj_UmZPDwIvLgM30_0.oRJ1L QmLB8ugNqSrHXXA2b0b9ELyghcVtRFKZdM2AsMs8rW0wHMXSwzVpotxs78_C QbZEi.E1kuAcFrhtitsOKBggB9k5AQXEcOMic1eA_49S81q6ETAmavhdNiAP jPWK3EU6GbGlNQyZo6beOQeS1J2cHFPNF3_wzO7yrdqmoSapilqx52jljtjv VoJWRpUcJAmQ6zWekR4YUvvlC..E0MBxiDf6Rho4lOuyDCX4KN1o3AuOqSpH NPsBGqNcQZ_yU_YP8q1nA1_4m2LU7wxlKYInBKo5Znh3yRpX6GVwpQlaNu3V SmpRNFjtGF2C7 Received: from [99.92.110.13] by web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:50:11 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 References: <294930.94884.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <20110107194348.GT23787@digitalkingdom.org> <201101071606.28875.phma@phma.optus.nu> <20110107210820.GB23787@digitalkingdom.org> <848989.4209.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 15:50:11 -0800 (PST) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: Cake, Pie or Ice Cream? (was: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language)) To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.118 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Niice. But then this will work, since only the first one doesn't have a=20 conjunction before it to bear the '-nai' ----- Original Message ---- From: Jorge Llamb=EDas To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 4:53:23 PM Subject: Re: Cake, Pie or Ice Cream? (was: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop= =20 saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language)) On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 7:42 PM, John E Clifford wrot= e: > Just so, hence the requirement that the connectives be taken as connectin= g=20 only > atomic expressions, i.e., not grouped ones. That's a hard rule to justif= y > within Lojban, but it works fine in Logic (Skolem normal forms), where th= e > negations are not part of the connective. Of course, then, the 'ji' tric= k > doesn't work exactly. On the other hand, using the groupings does cover = some > cases that simple normal forms don't -- that is, more that one TT line at= =20 once. Actually, the "... (na).e(nai) ... .e(nai) ... .e(nai) ..." form does work fine, so you can pinpoint exactly which ones you do want and which ones you don't in an intuitive way. It's the "na.e" form that causes trouble after the first one, because it negates everything that came before. mu'o mi'e xorxes --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups= =20 "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to=20 lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at=20 http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. =20 --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.