From lojban+bncCMHEmaCOBhDBzp7pBBoEfq09Sg@googlegroups.com Fri Jan 07 15:52:47 2011 Received: from mail-yx0-f189.google.com ([209.85.213.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PbM6t-0003id-KD; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:52:47 -0800 Received: by yxn35 with SMTP id 35sf16524877yxn.16 for ; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:52:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=FS8Iye6FsVxtqH2IX0hMnU+pX1yuYMUI2ytmOxEKZJU=; b=WUylJJf9NW10IDCt9k7FCipfrZnYRfYNSc4RNeUToD971UABwHVO+aRbDkoC6zIsfT eytwhFARbcb+eSbNXmMrQXWZmPGGAClPwfj6q9CrWUmjXsrzke7sfbEizc4Lp1HsXuNA MD2ONyrzeZ0htx13C+/Yo8rg5V9/PD4bI01hg= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=dFb1vtQOB1b7w8mJiIpo+l9od0HtTatgH2yJRfCzyFA3DJ35pFFVDmxLoiAw1dq91U Sq32JSzhsinFn16i8SPRLQPyLYxalTxCGZvjoz4WxXcOdHD6lHBxJMQKkrZ1Bb4/Bgn8 C+0AFCrz/cAvJIHxPeU3Mj5zHh/x4zIIal4dA= Received: by 10.100.173.3 with SMTP id v3mr829719ane.25.1294444353639; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:52:33 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.231.141.220 with SMTP id n28ls966339ibu.0.p; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:52:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.160.209 with SMTP id o17mr1597166ibx.19.1294444353037; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:52:33 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.160.209 with SMTP id o17mr1597165ibx.19.1294444352929; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:52:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-iy0-f182.google.com (mail-iy0-f182.google.com [209.85.210.182]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id cu19si5870337ibb.5.2011.01.07.15.52.31; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:52:31 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.182 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.182; Received: by iyb26 with SMTP id 26so18882155iyb.41 for ; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:52:31 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.231.35.139 with SMTP id p11mr26199438ibd.143.1294444351796; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 15:52:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.231.199.140 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Jan 2011 15:52:31 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <845107.34753.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> References: <9114501.161.1294150198377.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhy19> <7c0687a1-deba-495a-9760-95d1d0649423@t8g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <20110105165231.GK17534@digitalkingdom.org> <20110105220532.GN17534@digitalkingdom.org> <673286.9022.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <44615.24746.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <845107.34753.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 16:52:31 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: eyeonus@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of eyeonus@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.182 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=eyeonus@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00221534c913c537c804994a4f6f --00221534c913c537c804994a4f6f Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Um, let me see.... Black isn't a colour, it's a shade of grey. Wait, that's not news either.... On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:47 PM, John E Clifford wrote: > And the news in this is? > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Jonathan Jones > *To:* lojban@googlegroups.com > *Sent:* Fri, January 7, 2011 4:52:43 PM > > *Subject:* Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] > Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) > > Agreed, but that just proves that the meaning of the English word "or" > isn't consistent. > > "cream or sugar" => OR > "pie or ice cream" => XOR (usually) > > On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:45 PM, John E Clifford wrote: > >> But "Do you want pie OR ice cream" almost always is XOR -- even with "or", >> when children (regardless of age) are involved. >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* Jonathan Jones >> *To:* lojban@googlegroups.com >> *Sent:* Fri, January 7, 2011 4:33:33 PM >> >> *Subject:* Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: >> [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) >> >> On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Ivo Doko wrote: >> >>> On 7 January 2011 02:06, John E Clifford wrote: >>> >>>> It doesn't matter what the waiter emphasized. >>>> >>> >>> You either don't know English well enough or are just ignoring the >>> importance of emphasizing for the sake of your point. >> >> >> The question is the same regardless of emphasis. >> >> Also, in the real world, the question is never an XOR question, so saying >> "CREAM or SUGAR" does not suggest that the customer can have only one or the >> other, but merely that the customer is hard of hearing. >> >> -- >> mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >> .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu >> do zo'o >> (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "lojban" group. >> To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com >> . >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > > > -- > mu'o mi'e .aionys. > > .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu > do zo'o > (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --00221534c913c537c804994a4f6f Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Um, let me see....

Black isn't a colour, it's a shade of gre= y.

Wait, that's not news either....

On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:47 PM, John E Clifford <= ;kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
And the news in this is?

From: Jonathan Jones <<= a href=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">eyeonus@gmail.com= >
To: lojban@googlegroups.com<= br>
Sent: Fri, January 7= , 2011 4:52:43 PM

Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop sayi= ng that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language)

Agreed, but that just proves that the meaning of the English word "or&= quot; isn't consistent.

"cream or sugar" =3D> OR"pie or ice cream" =3D> XOR (usually)

On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:45 PM, John E Clifford <kali9= putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
But "Do you want pie OR ice cream" almost alway= s is XOR -- even with "or", when children (regardless of age) are= involved.

From: Jonathan Jones <<= a rel=3D"nofollow" href=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">eyeo= nus@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 7= , 2011 4:33:33 PM

Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re= : Vote for the Future Global Language)

On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Ivo Doko <ivo.doko@gmail.com> wrote:
On 7 January 2011 02:06, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
It doesn't matter what the waiter emphasized.

You either don't know English well enou= gh or are just ignoring the importance of emphasizing for the sake of your = point.

The question is the same regardless of emphasis.

Also, in = the real world, the question is never an XOR question, so saying "CREA= M or SUGAR" does not suggest that the customer can have only one or th= e other, but merely that the customer is hard of hearing.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le= bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to= the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsub= scribe@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
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For more options, visit this group at http://groups.googl= e.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be = denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I= am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups &= quot;lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi= 'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be = denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I= am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
--00221534c913c537c804994a4f6f--