From lojban+bncCIywt_XDCRCa1Z7pBBoEm6fQyQ@googlegroups.com Fri Jan 07 16:07:04 2011 Received: from mail-vw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.212.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PbMKi-0004Mn-E2; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 16:07:04 -0800 Received: by vws1 with SMTP id 1sf9987916vws.16 for ; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 16:06:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:message-id:x-ymail-osg:received :x-mailer:references:date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=P6eVDW8O8yfhkuABVp/cspqHK+w3oOdK9l2Daa/RTjU=; b=AaXT3l3mQoIE2OfFxf9he6aIDDsegjGh9ivvkAgJ1DcAj1UtjX3atrcAOt/hD2aOu6 cLeEQDxINiN2UUHXDFUhEaIomqWOCr+6qReOb6kNRqcls0a1opnAVKXdJl0PIUQIin7B k3YX3izOJhFSHsm/aw7Nb2RjvWkJerlojeeqE= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:x-ymail-osg:x-mailer:references :date:from:subject:to:in-reply-to:mime-version:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=A8HuNVpalkU4+T079PGhuWwmjAAK/fDujDKjPulvqnd4k2eC/v1v1skP68EN1yulAZ kkYhKvA8rlrLqDtdOpxoHBI+e2iNSuEJigmt5LqYbP7w+88a+AxScMoueennw1csebMB snkC7TNVPrM8Jlb31ogg6j8pFPGD9JWc7i74U= Received: by 10.220.181.12 with SMTP id bw12mr612513vcb.2.1294445210360; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 16:06:50 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.220.160.2 with SMTP id l2ls2334559vcx.4.p; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 16:06:49 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.180.65 with SMTP id bt1mr11174603vcb.18.1294445108964; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 16:05:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.220.180.65 with SMTP id bt1mr11174601vcb.18.1294445108934; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 16:05:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com (web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com [68.142.199.117]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id m31si1589571vcr.9.2011.01.07.16.05.07; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 16:05:07 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.117 as permitted sender) client-ip=68.142.199.117; Received: (qmail 46187 invoked by uid 60001); 8 Jan 2011 00:04:05 -0000 Message-ID: <640853.46174.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: XjnivToVM1khr5fmC7hz83tkyLRHOO73sQBVr_k5i02r7tb vZNcXbG78xUYWOXSEfonXNDcIXzgDh8epNg35_J0yESJe5qtN7xZNEDsZwPR wfHmpK3Gkc1Krrw657zh8xEUX8ZqwqxsKw4iNSiegdboEDo3bZLUeOCdMYgU V45xHyxYHXb8X7o77QKahxFEU44zly2wv4hxCywy3jKZeqXI1BKMX96UztWR lTnTv.QjKO_eGXeaG9IHBBI4vgDcxxquXuk0bmcPnZ.UodSn55lMJ5GraZCk zanWdTX7r9aWsztl7nQbkPbYJy3xKID3rwiF6AxPkpzMnVYte3vopNXs5iO6 oVe2b2HjamXiGEC9tGPlIw5kbXjtrvI3Szic7bZHdZy7vERSAXVRMCUoXq3N 8zx3jLIpoGc5e Received: from [99.92.110.13] by web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 07 Jan 2011 16:04:05 PST X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/553 YahooMailWebService/0.8.107.285259 References: <9114501.161.1294150198377.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhy19> <7c0687a1-deba-495a-9760-95d1d0649423@t8g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <20110105165231.GK17534@digitalkingdom.org> <20110105220532.GN17534@digitalkingdom.org> <673286.9022.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <44615.24746.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <845107.34753.qm@web81301.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Fri, 7 Jan 2011 16:04:05 -0800 (PST) From: John E Clifford Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) To: lojban@googlegroups.com In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Original-Sender: kali9putra@yahoo.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: best guess record for domain of kali9putra@yahoo.com designates 68.142.199.117 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=kali9putra@yahoo.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@yahoo.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-2030706655-1294445045=:46174" --0-2030706655-1294445045=:46174 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Exactly (though less questionable), ________________________________ From: Jonathan Jones To: lojban@googlegroups.com Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 5:52:31 PM Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) Um, let me see.... Black isn't a colour, it's a shade of grey. Wait, that's not news either.... On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 4:47 PM, John E Clifford wrote: And the news in this is? > > > > ________________________________ From: Jonathan Jones >To: lojban@googlegroups.com >Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 4:52:43 PM > >Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: >Vote for the Future Global Language) > > >Agreed, but that just proves that the meaning of the English word "or" isn't >consistent. > >"cream or sugar" => OR >"pie or ice cream" => XOR (usually) > > >On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:45 PM, John E Clifford wrote: > >But "Do you want pie OR ice cream" almost always is XOR -- even with "or", when >children (regardless of age) are involved. >> >> >> >> ________________________________ From: Jonathan Jones >>To: lojban@googlegroups.com >>Sent: Fri, January 7, 2011 4:33:33 PM >> >>Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: >>Vote for the Future Global Language) >> >> >> >>On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Ivo Doko wrote: >> >>On 7 January 2011 02:06, John E Clifford wrote: >>> >>>It doesn't matter what the waiter emphasized. >>>> >>>You either don't know English well enough or are just ignoring the importance of >>>emphasizing for the sake of your point. >>The question is the same regardless of emphasis. >> >>Also, in the real world, the question is never an XOR question, so saying "CREAM >>or SUGAR" does not suggest that the customer can have only one or the other, but >>merely that the customer is hard of hearing. >> >>-- >>mu'o mi'e .aionys. >> >>.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do >>zo'o >>(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) >> >> >>-- >>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>"lojban" group. >>To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>For more options, visit this group at >>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> >> >> -- >>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>"lojban" group. >>To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >>To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >>For more options, visit this group at >>http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. >> > > >-- >mu'o mi'e .aionys. > >.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do >zo'o >(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) > > -- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >"lojban" group. >To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > > > -- >You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >"lojban" group. >To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. >To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. >For more options, visit this group at >http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- mu'o mi'e .aionys. .i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o (Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D ) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. --0-2030706655-1294445045=:46174 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Exactly (though less questionable),

From: Jonathan Jones <eyeonus@gmail.com&= gt;
To: lojban@googlegr= oups.com
Sent: Fri, Jan= uary 7, 2011 5:52:31 PM
Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] R= e: Vote for the Future Global Language)

Um, let me see....

Black isn't a colour, it's a shade of grey.
Wait, that's not news either....

On Fri= , Jan 7, 2011 at 4:47 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrote:
And the news in this is?


From: Jonathan Jones <<= a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" h= ref=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com">eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 7= , 2011 4:52:43 PM

Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop sayi= ng that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language)

Agreed, but that just proves that the meaning of the English word "or" isn'= t consistent.

"cream or sugar" =3D> OR
"pie or ice cream" =3D&= gt; XOR (usually)

On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 3:45 PM, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yahoo.com> wrot= e:
But "Do you want pie OR ice cream" almost always is XOR -= - even with "or", when children (regardless of age) are involved.


From: Jonathan Jones <<= a rel=3D"nofollow" ymailto=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" h= ref=3D"mailto:eyeonus@gmail.com">eyeonus@gmail.com>
To: lojban@googlegroups.com
Sent: Fri, January 7= , 2011 4:33:33 PM

Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re= : Vote for the Future Global Language)

On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 7:51 AM, Ivo Doko <ivo.doko@gmail.com&g= t; wrote:
On 7 January 2011 02:06, John E Clifford <kali9putra@yaho= o.com> wrote:
It doesn't matter what the waiter emphasized.
<= /blockquote>

You either don't know English well enough or ar= e just ignoring the importance of emphasizing for the sake of your point.

The question is the same regardless of emphasis.

Also, in = the real world, the question is never an XOR question, so saying "CREAM or = SUGAR" does not suggest that the customer can have only one or the other, b= ut merely that the customer is hard of hearing.

--
mu'o mi'e .aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pil= no be denpa bu .i doi.luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke,= I am your father. :D )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegro= ups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

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You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegro= ups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.googl= e.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi'e .= aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.= luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D = )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegro= ups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.googl= e.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegro= ups.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.googl= e.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den.



--
mu'o mi'e .= aionys.

.i.a'o.e'e ko cmima le bende pe lo pilno be denpa bu .i doi.= luk. mi patfu do zo'o
(Come to the Dot Side! Luke, I am your father. :D = )

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojba= n?hl=3Den.

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group.
To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com.
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.
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