From lojban+bncCIzD1o6fERDus6LpBBoE6w4BsQ@googlegroups.com Sat Jan 08 09:08:15 2011 Received: from mail-gw0-f61.google.com ([74.125.83.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PbcGu-0006TM-Sd; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 09:08:14 -0800 Received: by gwj17 with SMTP id 17sf17316414gwj.16 for ; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 09:08:02 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received:received-spf:received:received :x-authentication-warning:received:message-id:date:from:to:subject :references:in-reply-to:mime-version:user-agent:x-originating-ip :x-remote-browser:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; bh=mCZA6t71GuzooNAbWVdljiV+kpfBe68NQFCfG/xowsU=; b=Xcn+t0es+fibZ5/00rfe9F2LImlvPHrViiNJ82f70TXDbJQNq5toHfzgCWc8o7vqBh zYBXAo8pLw3uWOPagdrvHjku7yVhj0cvPu0jGg5yQXhaC97EKW2j0gT328ObzYQJSeBc Nda+efzacVJ5j3t5J+m0Od8Yev2yNJ0MlHvyQ= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-authentication-warning:message-id:date :from:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:mime-version:user-agent :x-originating-ip:x-remote-browser:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-disposition; b=we6c182eKiM/UmzXYUbMWTrfo4hZJx/n27CTdOmfdzsiNGcdczjSOH7sYZTflbyIGa 9FaOevfpBRK4cSuBMWzmUAAcijbWmSoik3ssPwr6FIC/H05riImhgSC8m6BNjx7Toxqy GTFvY6AuC/Ds/6uCq2JLdslRUWChoNUh6z95w= Received: by 10.151.115.19 with SMTP id s19mr1969874ybm.26.1294506478420; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 09:07:58 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.150.143.13 with SMTP id q13ls6964595ybd.5.p; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 09:07:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.150.197.8 with SMTP id u8mr3005926ybf.46.1294506477864; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 09:07:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.134.20 with SMTP id h20mr2791456wfd.34.1294506059919; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 09:00:59 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.134.20 with SMTP id h20mr2791454wfd.34.1294506059886; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 09:00:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from pyramid-05.kattare.com (pyramid-05.kattare.com [204.13.10.6]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTPS id m3si3687122wfl.5.2011.01.08.09.00.59 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sat, 08 Jan 2011 09:00:59 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of brian@buildsoftware.com designates 204.13.10.6 as permitted sender) client-ip=204.13.10.6; Received: from pyramid-05.kattare.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by pyramid-05.kattare.com (8.13.8/8.13.6) with ESMTP id p08H0xBA018451 for ; Sat, 8 Jan 2011 09:00:59 -0800 Received: (from www@localhost) by pyramid-05.kattare.com (8.13.8/8.12.11/Submit) id p08H0xPt018450 for lojban@googlegroups.com; Sat, 8 Jan 2011 12:00:59 -0500 X-Authentication-Warning: pyramid-05.kattare.com: www set sender to brian@buildsoftware.com using -f Received: from ip72-209-211-235.dc.dc.cox.net (ip72-209-211-235.dc.dc.cox.net [72.209.211.235]) by www.kattare.com (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 12:00:58 -0500 Message-ID: <20110108120058.16067ej75zl85v48@www.kattare.com> Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2011 12:00:58 -0500 From: "Brian D. Eubanks" To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Semantic Representation of Lojban References: <20110106204534.GF27821@alice.local> <20110106190925.10456l4s2t3z3808@www.kattare.com> <20110107130904.GB30364@alice.local> In-Reply-To: <20110107130904.GB30364@alice.local> MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.3.7) X-Originating-IP: 72.209.211.235 X-Remote-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10_6_5; en-US) AppleWebKit/534.10 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/8.0.552.231 Safari/534.10 X-Original-Sender: brian@buildsoftware.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of brian@buildsoftware.com designates 204.13.10.6 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=brian@buildsoftware.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp=Yes; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Hi Alan, Thanks for your response and the crowdsourcing idea, and for linking to Jorne. As you suspected, I did only receive one or two inquiries about the linking effort. I like your idea of splitting a Wordnet linking project into specific chunks, each one centered around a group of related concepts. I discovered a very old mapping of gismu to Roget codes, which could be a starting point. I think I need to make this process super easy and painless if I expect anyone to get involved. What if I created some web pages that would allow Lojban experts to pick a gismu, then select related Wordnet or dbpedia entries from a list, and automatically save it to a database? We could then make the jorne web service accept Lojban text, and respond with related references from the Linked Data cloud. With this, you can follow that data to English and other Wordnets, Library of Congress subject headings, wikipedia/dbpedia, and the rest of the Linked Data "cloud". The Semantic Web conference was fantastic! It was overwhelming, but in a "too many sessions and not enough time" sort of way. The latest tools are amazing, and adoption is reaching a critical mass. I am considering submitting a talk for Semtech 2011 on why Lojban would work well with the semantic web. The due date is Monday, so I better get cracking on it ASAP. Wish me luck! As far as source code for my simple parse tree service, it's a real hack right now, but I will clean it up a little and put it on the jorne sourceforge. Last year I had intended to get more involved in this, but ran out of time to work on it. Now that there seems to be some interest from both you and Oren, and others, it's time to make this a reality. Are you offering to own the farm animal words? (asking rather sheepishly...) ;-) Regards, Brian Eubanks (iuban) Quoting ".alyn.post." : > On Thu, Jan 06, 2011 at 07:09:25PM -0500, Brian D. Eubanks wrote: >> >> This is related to what I've wanted to do with the jorne.org project. >> I am definitely interested in being a part of the discussion. No time >> to go to Penguicon, but I am willing to chat with the group. >> >> Reports of Semantic Web's death have been greatly exaggerated, and I >> can assure you that it is quite alive and well. Early adopters include >> Best Buy, US Library of Congress, Reuters, US Census, US DoD, EU >> governments, Google (Rich Snippets), and biomedical researchers, to >> mention only a few who are using and publishing Linked Data and are >> willing to put serious time and money into it. Perhaps Robin meant >> something different by his use of "Semantic Web", but a large part of >> Tim Berners-Lee's original vision is being implemented now in a big way. >> >> Lojban is unique among languages in that the entire Lojban corpus >> could become a part of the Linked Data "cloud" (see linkeddata.org). >> To make this happen, you would: >> >> 1. parse text into predicates (moderately hard but doable) >> 2. convert predicates to RDF (easy enough once you have the >> predicates, mostly this involves defining a standard URI/ID for each >> primitive) >> 3. publish RDF/OWL correlations between each Lojban primitive and >> dbpedia, wordnet, and other linked data sets (this is a manual process >> done once for each Lojban primitive). >> >> I posted something about this before, but I do have a very rudimentary >> web service that takes Lojban text and returns the parse tree as XML >> (using Robin's PEG parser). I haven't had time to work much on it, but >> I started to look at using Jena (a Java RDF API) to produce RDF as >> output instead. I would need help with converting the tree into >> predicates, since my Lojban ability is limited. >> >> See >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/b39f94b183cf344f >> and >> http://groups.google.com/group/lojban/browse_thread/thread/7e48f11c43f62b63/68095f3ae30b02dd >> >> The web service is at http://jorne.org/form.jsp >> Try pasting in some short text examples and let me know what you think. >> > > You know, I remember now seeing this project the first time you > posted about it, I'm not sure why I didn't say anything at the time. > > I've added a link to your project on the sidebar to my website. See > roughly in the middle of "Lojban Resources": > > http://lodockikumazvati.org/ > > One of our summer researchers recently gave a presentation on the > semantic web, focusing on DBpedia[1], which extracts formatted > information from wikipedia (like sidebar tables) and allows > structured access to that data (using SPARQL and I'm sure other > query methods). [Brian of course knows about DBpedia and the > related technology already.] > > That was a pretty fascinating talk, In that "We could use two or > three of these features right now to make our product better" kind > of way. > > I note, reading your referenced threads, that you said: > > Anyone with any background in RDF or Lojban is welcome to join the > project. I particularly need help with mapping the Lojban gismu to > synsets in English and other Wordnets. That would bring immediate > benefit in being able to generate simple lojban sentences from > dbpedia and other linked data content. This part could done without > any knowledge in RDF. Drop me a line if you are interested in mapping > some gismu. > > I'd love to be wrong, but I'd wager you didn't get any responses to > this request. I think it is too large, uninteresting, or abstract. > I wonder what would happen if you said "I'd love it if one of you > could take all the gismu referring to farm animals and give me the > link X and Y from dataset Z for them." Substituting farm animals > for whatever topic seems reasonably interesting and repeating as > necessary. The idea being to make a focused, specific request that > someone could just go do. There are definitely subjects for which > I'm a close enough domain expert to do this work, while for others > I'd just rather someone else with more motivation work on them. > > Are you interested in experimenting with this kind of crowdsourcing > to build this data? Is that your next step? Oren showed a heck of > a lot of interest in your project, it took a non-zero amount of time > to give such a thoughtful reply! > > How was the Semantic Web conference in June? Do we get to see the > source code? > > -Alan > > 1: http://dbpedia.org/ > -- > .i ko djuno fi le do sevzi > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.