From lojban+bncCO2dsrjkARDPqKTpBBoEZ1qJuA@googlegroups.com Sat Jan 08 17:50:23 2011 Received: from mail-qw0-f61.google.com ([209.85.216.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PbkQD-0001Ne-W9; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 17:50:23 -0800 Received: by qwd6 with SMTP id 6sf62934975qwd.16 for ; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 17:50:11 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:message-id:date:from :user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=7WL3OkWSmA3f8tOBcUS+Qnhe1Nq3Ib7t2uYeuOpUJuw=; b=CHBarBP8pJ/QdlguGmyR4AKmSEQgEJKI3po0j9jFFeSonyKT/PdXTFY5hGrdPAWVTE k/LVFd4HE7cjYgL+ZdQVJMORrcGrlOQ4kjFjVeuObDLavEC32NjZHxXNafXJdyHCWIMF fyPvg2nG7H4jwg9A0dAazzl8R/weCz9+PULD8= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=IvyFDV+TVBiWzV7qKeBnormrnvi9bE/5mtKUvAU0xo8fYJN5INtmtJYiCkDJALle9R mW7GV/o3chhzV0ttCqPv7+j4djc6qfGVPJV4FCK8YN57C4p0UBJYeXJmOJ6AlrAAd7Sg +lk/3peQuu8XQ8zX8tUQB8i3O+3VynmWBDCyc= Received: by 10.229.83.210 with SMTP id g18mr3822913qcl.12.1294537807405; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 17:50:07 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.229.75.218 with SMTP id z26ls6297212qcj.3.p; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 17:50:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.81.19 with SMTP id v19mr601457qck.12.1294537806937; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 17:50:06 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.229.81.19 with SMTP id v19mr601456qck.12.1294537806870; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 17:50:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from pi.meson.org (pi.meson.org [96.56.207.26]) by gmr-mx.google.com with SMTP id v18si2240449qcd.3.2011.01.08.17.50.06; Sat, 08 Jan 2011 17:50:06 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 96.56.207.26 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of mark@kli.org) client-ip=96.56.207.26; Received: (qmail 9663 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2011 01:50:06 -0000 Received: from nagas.meson.org (192.168.1.101) by pi.meson.org with SMTP; 9 Jan 2011 01:50:06 -0000 Message-ID: <4D29144E.8000808@kli.org> Date: Sat, 08 Jan 2011 20:50:06 -0500 From: "Mark E. Shoulson" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101209 Fedora/3.1.7-0.35.b3pre.fc14 Lightning/1.0b2 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) References: <9114501.161.1294150198377.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhy19> <673286.9022.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: mark@kli.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 96.56.207.26 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of mark@kli.org) smtp.mail=mark@kli.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed On 01/07/2011 06:15 PM, Jonathan Jones wrote: > "Do you WANT cream or sugar?" vs. "Do you want CREAM or SUGAR?" would > not be interpreted as having different meanings, because in the > context of cream and sugar for coffee, no one would ever suggest that > the customer may have one or the other but not both or neither. It > would be interpreted as "This customer is hard of hearing, so I should > speak louder so as to make sure he hears me correctly", which may be > considered to be rude by the customer (if, for example, he isn't hard > of hearing), but would not be considered an XOR question, due to > contextual factors, including culture. Sure they'd be heard as different. I've just poured your coffee. I can go back into the kitchen to fetch cream and/or sugar, or better still, I can call the waitress over to get you something for you coffee, but only if you need it. So do you want something? That's a yes/no question. It might be more helpful if you volunteered more information, but it remains a yes/no question. And for most English-speakers, it would be stressed differently. This is a pragmatics thing; stresses CAN matter. ~mark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. 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