From lojban+bncCN673cmqFBD_uqbpBBoEe4I3mw@googlegroups.com Sun Jan 09 03:35:49 2011 Received: from mail-yi0-f61.google.com ([209.85.218.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PbtYh-00052A-5N; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 03:35:48 -0800 Received: by yia27 with SMTP id 27sf12401941yia.16 for ; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 03:35:32 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:x-vr-score :x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score:message-id:date:from:organization :user-agent:x-accept-language:mime-version:to:subject:references :in-reply-to:x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results :reply-to:precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help :list-archive:sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=hnKZV9BxiDL7O6Nl9mvzj1xnzZG9HMzffjSnBLRVmng=; b=QDgdA0w2I/aLIO6Gn7zza80cVvqiRGA9+ZwP5W+54swJbfVrFAA5J55fsTs8BzkyTQ UJqRIBYDHL9iiFtmIPU5eHDj9UyYOpqN0Cuqe+kw6vksWhyPx5A8BJEdxe1BgNfYg8Fs su61CvLkwuK2nTq3ivOX2d79mQTLLwgLZQttw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:x-vr-score:x-authority-analysis:x-cm-score :message-id:date:from:organization:user-agent:x-accept-language :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=0GuyPjRAQ3L5VoyJcFOLBDOhNrHwGxpPlPZ7iz2WCkU6JbaQJ4VY/nOi7d65I0nTrv +3jz0HMvHorJBl4ptb63yro/K28a2lH05dGX8JrgUbyEkd1OxM3oPt32Ouy1xsqjQNYT S6z5KmcpYaLB9xQsrkdrDx/X+hVBWy4otnZVA= Received: by 10.100.46.10 with SMTP id t10mr95481ant.78.1294572927673; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 03:35:27 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.100.156.5 with SMTP id d5ls3714436ane.1.p; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 03:35:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.190.19 with SMTP id n19mr4613387anf.22.1294572926215; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 03:35:26 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.100.190.19 with SMTP id n19mr4613386anf.22.1294572926200; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 03:35:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from eastrmmtao102.cox.net (eastrmmtao102.cox.net [68.230.240.8]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id w40si11712225ana.3.2011.01.09.03.35.25; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 03:35:26 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.8 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) client-ip=68.230.240.8; Received: from eastrmimpo02.cox.net ([68.1.16.120]) by eastrmmtao102.cox.net (InterMail vM.8.01.03.00 201-2260-125-20100507) with ESMTP id <20110109113525.CKJW27861.eastrmmtao102.cox.net@eastrmimpo02.cox.net> for ; Sun, 9 Jan 2011 06:35:25 -0500 Received: from [192.168.0.101] ([70.179.118.163]) by eastrmimpo02.cox.net with bizsmtp id tPbG1f0053Xcbvq02PbG9m; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 06:35:25 -0500 X-VR-Score: -100.00 X-Authority-Analysis: v=1.1 cv=eKiZAbW9gBU9oXfwV99Eg0U4vgBjENwsLpqi/5I1XuE= c=1 sm=1 a=kXuURt-3n2gA:10 a=8nJEP1OIZ-IA:10 a=7ls7RdmwX4RvLZNVULbZcg==:17 a=8YJikuA2AAAA:8 a=tNtD1bfMWJBAayfGGSYA:9 a=TFzmWWZLNhKk__gJoIMA:7 a=FwpurNNbufrhUsaFB8ThoUj2D4oA:4 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=dxBpO5_FDU0A:10 a=7ls7RdmwX4RvLZNVULbZcg==:117 X-CM-Score: 0.00 Message-ID: <4D299D75.9090608@lojban.org> Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 06:35:17 -0500 From: "Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder - LLG" Organization: The Logical Language Group, Inc. User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.7 (Windows/20050923) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: [lojban] Re: Cake, Pie or Ice Cream? References: <9114501.161.1294150198377.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhy19> <20110105220532.GN17534@digitalkingdom.org> <673286.9022.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <294930.94884.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <294930.94884.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> X-Original-Sender: lojbab@lojban.org X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 68.230.240.8 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of lojbab@lojban.org) smtp.mail=lojbab@lojban.org Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed John E Clifford wrote: > The 'ji' solution to the choice question is very Logjamish; it is easy > to picture JCB cackling with glee over it. But it raises (not "begs" > gawdammit) some further questions, all of which have been raised before > and probably solved. But, I don't remember the solutions and they may > not be in the consciousness of many less-than-decades Lojbanists: > 1. What is the question to which "cream", "sugar, "neither" or "both" > are *answers*, not merely side remarks that happen to do the job answers > are meant to do? > 2) How does (or indeed, just "Does") the 'ji' solution extend to cases > of three or more choice items, as in the subject line? > 3) What about extending the solution to 1 above to more than two cases? You asked me 2) and 3) way back in 1987-1988 when we were just starting on the redesign. I recall you had calculated just how many answers would be needed for 3 terms, and 4 terms, and how many of them could be covered by TLI Loglan constructs. We devised a solution, which no one else seems to have mentioned. That solution was eventually generalized in a different sense, so I am not surprised that it was forgotten. The solution avoided ji altogether, and asked for selection from a set with members specified by lu'i/lu'u. More complex cases could be specified with multiple set expressions (any 2 of set A) union (any 1 of set B). I remember playing with trying to devise questions that might actually arise, that would use multiple sets, and then realized that we have "Pick 2 from column A and 1 from column B) as something that does arise in English. Now that lu'i has been generalized into a series that serves as a set/mass/individual/pointer converter, I suspect that there is a lot more power in the construct than even I dreamed of. But I don't remember how much of what we were thinking of in 1988 made it into CLL in 1997. lojbab -- Bob LeChevalier lojbab@lojban.org www.lojban.org President and Founder, The Logical Language Group, Inc. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=en.