From lojban+bncCML0xpmUARDOq6fpBBoESMzlKw@googlegroups.com Sun Jan 09 07:35:57 2011 Received: from mail-pz0-f61.google.com ([209.85.210.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1PbxJB-0004v4-4p; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 07:35:57 -0800 Received: by pzk9 with SMTP id 9sf5306727pzk.16 for ; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 07:35:47 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:mime-version:received:received :in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type; bh=OmfsT/hKJjp4WwQKFchDtq5lULXiqPRx+7TT1NYs18U=; b=TPkVr8HaPBsutfJsVIUc/uUP/nVD654twnyqLaICNktLp5/sROA6SINcy/mWmlNEi0 I19rXfMKkCSaM9NlA7vcQAowjpYoWjOv/Jl+ktMR9FaTsPJy5ZoOQaEoz7f/ItOd6HR3 DOD+5NUb/dO02XIc/7J24fazoSyDz2vJFRhx4= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type; b=wtBahO40Bd/lpnBtOoQjmh+XcARcGz70x0uPWw3JDUR8Wvlzv1wOu+e8B6tyext4cK mSSXh3QsqvuSy1iG+rpVQtfE5DQIu+4D4iBROnQMFagcdTQ2qG2ehpnnz6zwBjIhf891 WDYwr6oWOMw0qfltli3f361OAOquPUTWI+TWg= Received: by 10.142.56.11 with SMTP id e11mr230956wfa.58.1294587342569; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 07:35:42 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.142.97.18 with SMTP id u18ls4549479wfb.2.p; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 07:35:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.204.13 with SMTP id b13mr3493130wfg.67.1294587341511; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 07:35:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.204.13 with SMTP id b13mr3493128wfg.67.1294587341270; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 07:35:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pz0-f50.google.com (mail-pz0-f50.google.com [209.85.210.50]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id p40si4786249wfc.2.2011.01.09.07.35.40; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 07:35:40 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.50 as permitted sender) client-ip=209.85.210.50; Received: by pzk27 with SMTP id 27so3970176pzk.37 for ; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 07:35:40 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.131.7 with SMTP id e7mr3600102wfd.316.1294587340151; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 07:35:40 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.142.103.17 with HTTP; Sun, 9 Jan 2011 07:35:40 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <9114501.161.1294150198377.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhy19> <7c0687a1-deba-495a-9760-95d1d0649423@t8g2000prh.googlegroups.com> <20110105165231.GK17534@digitalkingdom.org> <20110105220532.GN17534@digitalkingdom.org> <673286.9022.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <294930.94884.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <401176.86876.qm@web81302.mail.mud.yahoo.com> Date: Sun, 9 Jan 2011 09:35:40 -0600 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Cake, Pie or Ice Cream? (was: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language)) From: Ian Johnson To: lojban@googlegroups.com X-Original-Sender: blindbravado@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of blindbravado@gmail.com designates 209.85.210.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=blindbravado@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd29cbc8a5c0004996b9a7e --000e0cd29cbc8a5c0004996b9a7e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So...in whatever is the de facto standard, is LE SELBRI JOI LE SELBRI grammatical, and does it mean what you'd expect? mu'o mi'e .latros. 2011/1/9 Jorge Llamb=EDas > On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 2:51 PM, Ian Johnson > wrote: > > > > That reminds me, actually; why does the grammar refuse: > > LE SELBRI JOI LE SELBRI > > The PEG grammar has no problem with it. > > > ? Why can't JOI realize "left side is sumti, right side is sumti, so ku > is > > implied on left side"? Does the grammar not have enough lookahead, or > > something? > > The official grammar is supposed to have only one token lookahead. In > fact that's not true, because the preparser used by the official > parser still needs infinite lookahead. For example, if you get a PA, > you have no way of knowing whether you are getting a sumti or a selbri > or a free modifier until you reach the end of the string of PAs, and > there's no limit to how many PA's you could get. So PA strings were > handled by the preparser instead of by the parser proper. (And > similarly for some other stuff.) The lexer also needs infinite > lookahead. For example, you don't know that you are getting a cmevla > until you get a consonant followed by a pause, and that could take any > number of tokens of lookahead. So Lojban is not and never was LALR(1). > > mu'o mi'e xorxes > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "lojban" group. > To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > lojban+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/lojban?hl=3Den. > > --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den. --000e0cd29cbc8a5c0004996b9a7e Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So...in whatever is the de facto standard, is LE SELBRI JOI LE SELBRI gramm= atical, and does it mean what you'd expect?

mu'o mi'e .l= atros.

2011/1/9 Jorge Llamb=EDas <jjllambias@gmail.com<= /a>>
On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 2:51 PM, Ian Johnson <blindbravado@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> That reminds me, actually; why does the gramma= r refuse:
> LE SELBRI JOI LE SELBRI

The PEG grammar has no problem with it.

> ? Why can't JOI realize "left side is sumti, right side is su= mti, so ku is
> implied on left side"? Does the grammar not have enough lookahead= , or
> something?

The official grammar is supposed to have only one token lookahead. In=
fact that's not true, because the preparser used by the official
parser still needs infinite lookahead. For example, if you get a PA,
you have no way of knowing whether you are getting a sumti or a selbri
or a free modifier until you reach the end of the string of PAs, and
there's no limit to how many PA's you could get. So PA strings were=
handled by the preparser instead of by the parser proper. (And
similarly for some other stuff.) The lexer also needs infinite
lookahead. For example, you don't know that you are getting a cmevla until you get a consonant followed by a pause, and that could take any
number of tokens of lookahead. So Lojban is not and never was LALR(1).

mu'o mi'e xorxes

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