From lojban+bncCNuStaWoDxDY_qfpBBoEmOuMmQ@googlegroups.com Sun Jan 09 10:33:12 2011 Received: from mail-ww0-f61.google.com ([74.125.82.61]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Pc04h-00048Z-UX; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 10:33:12 -0800 Received: by wwb34 with SMTP id 34sf20849295wwb.16 for ; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 10:33:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:message-id:date :from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=cqASjOcpQst4vuMc6Q8OGg708tqhAVpj0Fbimb1Q95E=; b=Hp4fttdfUW9egAzMI75rl3YpX+Ck9EtToe8rsxZAQmL4SeJRKcAiOfwtQ06OsltT1R 44GJ78yfIsjzWtsYbEAnS3Ge/XAiC8yheKYF4XYKNGz1wVsveLOld8U2yiHoDhz3g4w4 mqpIITcPScu4EsjpcI5CzeZFJOTdmGp5KKB60= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=cQUUZzfD1qaUqgBKqIqVrT0LwWGSdcwc+8wtbiiSN0yMUOZjCp2RSrNsUx8u42IuXI 4y9eBTyEes998QBASyNaExP3MktqZaGq+5hE9UU8o3PcqQKT7bmHkqtDakqr7SZn9lJp 364ggx6I2z76Ua0Ogo2HLKh/+Uq5lPnH5QBCg= Received: by 10.216.179.137 with SMTP id h9mr3808223wem.4.1294597976601; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 10:32:56 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.184.76 with SMTP id cj12ls5430030wbb.3.p; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 10:32:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.153.201 with SMTP id l9mr985441wbw.27.1294597975572; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 10:32:55 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.153.201 with SMTP id l9mr985440wbw.27.1294597975518; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 10:32:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ww0-f50.google.com (mail-ww0-f50.google.com [74.125.82.50]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id t13si4410977wbc.0.2011.01.09.10.32.54; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 10:32:54 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.50 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.50; Received: by wwf26 with SMTP id 26so18738969wwf.7 for ; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 10:32:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.152.71 with SMTP id f7mr17660464wbw.144.1294597908710; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 10:31:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.65] (87-194-76-177.bethere.co.uk [87.194.76.177]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id f35sm19431708wbf.14.2011.01.09.10.31.47 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 09 Jan 2011 10:31:47 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4D29FF11.4080306@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 18:31:45 +0000 From: And Rosta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Cake, Pie or Ice Cream? References: <9114501.161.1294150198377.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhy19> <673286.9022.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <294930.94884.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D299D75.9090608@lojban.org> In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: and.rosta@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.50 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=and.rosta@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jorge Llamb=EDas, On 09/01/2011 14:44: > On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 8:35 AM, Bob LeChevalier, President and Founder > - LLG wrote: >> John E Clifford wrote: >> >>> The 'ji' solution to the choice question is very Logjamish; it is easy = to >>> picture JCB cackling with glee over it. But it raises (not "begs" >>> gawdammit) some further questions, all of which have been raised before= and >>> probably solved. But, I don't remember the solutions and they may not = be in >>> the consciousness of many less-than-decades Lojbanists: >>> 1. What is the question to which "cream", "sugar, "neither" or "both" = are >>> *answers*, not merely side remarks that happen to do the job answers ar= e >>> meant to do? > > The one I prefer is: > > lo kruji lo sukta zo'u do djica ma > "Cream, sugar: you want what?" > > The answers "lo kruji", "lo sukta", "noda", "roda". And if you want to > be less than helpful: "pada", "su'oda", "me'ida", and so on. [...] >> We devised a solution, which no one else seems to have mentioned. That >> solution was eventually generalized in a different sense, so I am not >> surprised that it was forgotten. >> >> The solution avoided ji altogether, and asked for selection from a set w= ith >> members specified by lu'i/lu'u. More complex cases could be specified w= ith >> multiple set expressions (any 2 of set A) union (any 1 of set B). > > You don't spell out the solution. Presumably it was something like: > > do djica ma poi cmima ... ce ... ce ... ce ... > > But you don't really need to use sets, you could also say: > > do djica ma poi me ... .a ... .a ... .a ... Symmetrical connectives reduce logically to quantification over sets. "A or B (or C)" =3D "at least one from {A,B(,C)}" "A and B (and C)" =3D "each one from {A,B(,C)}" "A xor B (xor C)" =3D "exactly one from {A,B(,C)}" alternatival OR is: "A alt-or B (alt-or C)" =3D "which one(s) from {A,B(,C)}" and for the alternatival exclusive OR: "A alt-xor B (alt-xor C)" =3D "which one from {A,B(,C)}" So I'd argue that "do djica ma poi cmima ... ce ... ce ... ce ..." is logic= ally the most basic. --And. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.