From lojban+bncCNuStaWoDxDrnqjpBBoEfZBoDg@googlegroups.com Sun Jan 09 11:41:46 2011 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Pc195-0007Va-6J; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 11:41:46 -0800 Received: by wyb35 with SMTP id 35sf20934298wyb.16 for ; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 11:41:36 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:message-id:date :from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=GnQJhF4rA92yczjePj1XkxBMEIdiHujjllHjGpPLqrc=; b=NwggV5xybLu8m+kOfMXOVWLiC9aAns1nx3aasA/92XVR4GXVBZ7hyUYX9ULxXct60s njCFkk1DoJjXEPLfObo/AaNlXV8BnCoKnaR1CjCMtsst56Gq+OJNNcqAiEjh75DT9NGG 3Gk9C/YUvX9q62hWN/7F28NcC1CKuiUGAk/S0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=5R5K8dTIp5Y5HcPvC+60lAawsjcUNuXN+1yztXKBnwy6nE4yJAY//E/74IqvCk83en 8ey56JTTlippWd2nJogPGvsADubqZe7LB9eFS5uVflbdTf6gdqaV9JQIfN1TLJoak5GZ 9fPpa+E1uPmoadsGzg+v81+TnhaVJSxFG23to= Received: by 10.216.166.74 with SMTP id f52mr3837258wel.26.1294602091953; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 11:41:31 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.184.76 with SMTP id cj12ls5441196wbb.3.p; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 11:41:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.145.66 with SMTP id c2mr981078wbv.24.1294602090992; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 11:41:30 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.145.66 with SMTP id c2mr981077wbv.24.1294602090927; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 11:41:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wy0-f178.google.com (mail-wy0-f178.google.com [74.125.82.178]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id y33si4419538wbd.6.2011.01.09.11.41.29; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 11:41:29 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.178 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.178; Received: by wyb42 with SMTP id 42so19625350wyb.37 for ; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 11:41:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.151.204 with SMTP id d12mr17710387wbw.113.1294602044750; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 11:40:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.65] (87-194-76-177.bethere.co.uk [87.194.76.177]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id q18sm19476395wbe.5.2011.01.09.11.40.43 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 09 Jan 2011 11:40:43 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4D2A0F3A.2020403@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 19:40:42 +0000 From: And Rosta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Lojban is *NOT* broken! Stop saying that! (was Re: [lojban] Re: Vote for the Future Global Language) References: <4D25D915.9080305@lojban.org> <4D25F6F2.7050205@gmail.com> <20110106171943.GZ17534@digitalkingdom.org> <4D260F63.7090101@gmail.com> <20110106190153.GB23787@digitalkingdom.org> <4D26227D.4080207@gmail.com> <20110106204552.GH23787@digitalkingdom.org> In-Reply-To: <20110106204552.GH23787@digitalkingdom.org> X-Original-Sender: and.rosta@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.178 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=and.rosta@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Robin Lee Powell, On 06/01/2011 20:45: > On Thu, Jan 06, 2011 at 08:13:49PM +0000, And Rosta wrote: >>>> "na ku a bu e by e cy cu broda" >>>> >>>> Ten years ago these were ambiguous. >> >> ambiguous between the two meanings >> the English version has: "It is not the case that A, B and C >> broda" versus "For each of A,B,C it is not the case that it >> brodas". > > I'm not going to comment on what I think it means because I have > problems with na ku and quantification :) and I'm pretty busy right > now, but if you could review the relevant CLL sections and > double-check whether there's remaining ambiguity, and if so show me > where, I'd *really* appreciate it. The sum of what I nonerroneously know about Lojban is a subset of what xorx= es knows: he knows best what problems there are, what the solutions should = be, and what alterations or augmentations to CLL are needed. As for my particular point about the ambiguity of "na ku a bu e by e cy cu = broda", pycyn and xorxes both have since pointed out that in actual fact th= e left-to-right scoping principle has always been there, in what folk know,= (as pycyn says it has) (even if it didn't get stated in CLL, which I'm not= sure about). As xorxes says in one of his other messages, the BPFK need to= make official the scope rule for elements not in the same bridi, and to ab= olish the irregular scope rule for selbri tcita "na" (which is in CLL). --And. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.