From lojban+bncCNuStaWoDxCrx6jpBBoESsoghg@googlegroups.com Sun Jan 09 13:08:11 2011 Received: from mail-wy0-f189.google.com ([74.125.82.189]) by chain.digitalkingdom.org with esmtp (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1Pc2Uh-0000VG-IR; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 13:08:11 -0800 Received: by wyb35 with SMTP id 35sf21027099wyb.16 for ; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 13:08:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=domainkey-signature:received:x-beenthere:received:received:received :received:received-spf:received:received:received:message-id:date :from:user-agent:mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to :x-original-sender:x-original-authentication-results:reply-to :precedence:mailing-list:list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive :sender:list-subscribe:list-unsubscribe:content-type :content-transfer-encoding; bh=1661hB2qzHA28ViyAxOlA25ECjpXexiLUsQFXtTjYXs=; b=DquALHoczhZUcE+dL+qNMf9Bghsq3UT4vYiCPWxsZUGcB7VCRM3hl2Z9MWI5sOWn0S BNnhWfu5/62ZKI7loAvkpe1OuDGU9Jqrv5Ekz2o/Nnc97ARyTO/BXB0dyfXa/dLypj0K S0NKylii9oINovlOdQgocpxaMcI1SQ6KqTJe0= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=googlegroups.com; s=beta; h=x-beenthere:received-spf:message-id:date:from:user-agent :mime-version:to:subject:references:in-reply-to:x-original-sender :x-original-authentication-results:reply-to:precedence:mailing-list :list-id:list-post:list-help:list-archive:sender:list-subscribe :list-unsubscribe:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; b=xS2BUJfinCCjnHvc2UfSxEVRI0li0bmFaIEOuaYtsvB4l9Wv3ZbFaYqO8Gyo2U0rtu 6CTRJyOTpSJ/mP1lp+nbvxhPz+rSkNFuzsq0KKPI9dM1nnmhOZ5Y11bZkJ8RO8La2WE+ ei48Urw/XXORMMzdlLrAhDznnJ2G9RPeXGw+o= Received: by 10.216.51.13 with SMTP id a13mr210653wec.19.1294607275659; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 13:07:55 -0800 (PST) X-BeenThere: lojban@googlegroups.com Received: by 10.227.184.76 with SMTP id cj12ls5455552wbb.3.p; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 13:07:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.155.85 with SMTP id r21mr973944wbw.1.1294607274579; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 13:07:54 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.155.85 with SMTP id r21mr973943wbw.1.1294607274524; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 13:07:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ww0-f52.google.com (mail-ww0-f52.google.com [74.125.82.52]) by gmr-mx.google.com with ESMTP id t13si4431270wbc.0.2011.01.09.13.07.53; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 13:07:53 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: pass (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.52 as permitted sender) client-ip=74.125.82.52; Received: by wwd20 with SMTP id 20so19995678wwd.33 for ; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 13:07:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.227.152.149 with SMTP id g21mr2479279wbw.120.1294606913977; Sun, 09 Jan 2011 13:01:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.65] (87-194-76-177.bethere.co.uk [87.194.76.177]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPS id 11sm19526139wbi.0.2011.01.09.13.01.52 (version=SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5); Sun, 09 Jan 2011 13:01:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <4D2A223F.5040206@gmail.com> Date: Sun, 09 Jan 2011 21:01:51 +0000 From: And Rosta User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.9.2.13) Gecko/20101207 Thunderbird/3.1.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lojban@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [lojban] Re: Cake, Pie or Ice Cream? References: <9114501.161.1294150198377.JavaMail.geo-discussion-forums@yqhy19> <673286.9022.qm@web81303.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <294930.94884.qm@web81304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> <4D299D75.9090608@lojban.org> <4D29FF11.4080306@gmail.com> <4D2A0799.7000809@gmail.com> <726794.97971.qm@web81306.mail.mud.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: X-Original-Sender: and.rosta@gmail.com X-Original-Authentication-Results: gmr-mx.google.com; spf=pass (google.com: domain of and.rosta@gmail.com designates 74.125.82.52 as permitted sender) smtp.mail=and.rosta@gmail.com; dkim=pass (test mode) header.i=@gmail.com Reply-To: lojban@googlegroups.com Precedence: list Mailing-list: list lojban@googlegroups.com; contact lojban+owners@googlegroups.com List-ID: List-Post: , List-Help: , List-Archive: Sender: lojban@googlegroups.com List-Subscribe: , List-Unsubscribe: , Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jorge Llamb=EDas, On 09/01/2011 20:19: > On Sun, Jan 9, 2011 at 5:04 PM, John E Clifford wr= ote: >> Happily, if the sets are L-sets (just the things mentioned), then the is= sue of >> how 'ce' groups is irrelevant, as it is clearly meant to be (I pass over= teh >> objection to talking about L-sets, since that is irrelevant, too). > > You seem to be saying that we never talk about sets in the language > (only in the metalanguage). That's fine with me, we don't really need > sets. But if so, is there any difference between "ko'a ce ko'e" and > "ko'a jo'u ko'e"? Surely there is a need to distinguish {a, b, c} from {{a, b}, c} in ordinar= y language and thought, where "{}" is some kind of group with members. --And. --=20 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "= lojban" group. To post to this group, send email to lojban@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to lojban+unsubscribe@googlegrou= ps.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/lojban= ?hl=3Den.